23 More Distinguished TSA Scholars

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Mike, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but MPs operate under the UCMJ and not the Constitution. Civilian airports are areas where the Constitution is in effect, so what passes muster by UCMJ guidelines may still violate Constitutional rights and thus be unacceptable for civilian clerk-traveler interaction.
     
  2. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    There you go, trying to use logic to understand the TSA... That path leads only to madness.
     
  3. RB

    RB Founding Member

    When all a TSA spokesperson has in their arsenal is DHS Propaganda the responses can be anticipated without error.
     
  4. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Spokesperson, employee, what's the difference these days?

    All of them are quite aware that if the TSA folds up and blows away, they'll all be unemployed.
     
  5. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    The UCMJ is still subject to the Constitution.
     
  6. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Theoretically, anyway.

    One need only look at Abu Ghraib and the "soldiers" involved (like Lynndie England, for example) to understand just how little "constitutionality" matters to some people.
     
  7. Monica47

    Monica47 Original Member

    Rugape - you said:That is not a mack truck, really it isn't. I made the distinction between the different patdowns. I was in the Military Police, and when we had a situation and did a pat down, then you check the private areas becasue it is an easy area to hide dangerous items. We didn't do hardly any of the "stop and frisk" things they are doing now, when we did a patdown for officer safety (which was when you had a situation that may have involved a crime and you were just beginning your initial investigation), you did a quick patdown with a cursory examination of the private areas to make certain there was no weapon (predominantly a gun was what we were looking for) was present. If someone was taken into custody, the patdown became more invasive because you were looking for more than just weapons.

    So does that mean that I'm considered a criminal the moment I enter the security area of the airport simply because I purchased a plane ticket? And if I opt out of the scanner why can I not go through the metal detector if weapons discovery is the primary reason for the security in the first place? We know from John Corbett that you can get past the scanners if you are clever but if you have a knife or gun the metal detectors are going to alarm. Or is the pat down truly punishment for not following "orders"? And if I do go through the scanner and there is an anomaly say on my knee why do I have to get an enhanced pat down that includes my breasts and genitals - is that because I am now in "custody" of the TSA because of the results of the scanner? If you are going to touch private areas of my body the least you can do is look me in the eye and use the correct language for body parts instead of the mystical "resistance". I truly do not understand how any screener can do this to another human being. You've all sold your souls for a paycheck.
     
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  8. RB

    RB Founding Member

    They sell out pretty cheaply too if you ask me.
     
  9. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

  10. RB

    RB Founding Member

  11. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    True enough. The larger problem is that so many of them refuse to remain "bought" once they've sold out. But what more should you expect from someone who's so desperate for work that they'll lie even to themselves about what they're doing for a "living?"
     
  12. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    You are not considered a criminal unless you present a situation that deems you a criminal in the eyes of the law. You are simply a person trying to get from point A to point B, and the TSOs are simply the people performing the security functions described to them by the SOP via DHS/TSA. Not all weapons are metal, and patdowns (when done per SOP) are not a punishment, they are simply used to clear alarms or to clear the person of possible threat items. Anyone that uses a patdown as a punitive measure is wrong, and should not be a TSO.
     
  13. Monica47

    Monica47 Original Member

    Rugape - please address my question - If I go through the scanner and there is an anomaly on my knee why does the pat down include the rest of my body including breasts and genitals?
     
  14. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Exactly what I was going to ask -- he completely dodged the question.
     
  15. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    He can't tell you, because it's SOP, and the SOP is SSI.

    (It's most likely because TSA employees cannot be trained for alternative conditional responses. It's simply, "If you see anything on that screen but an 'OK,' grope 'em til they cry.")
     
  16. N965VJ

    N965VJ Original Member

    The TSA has determined their entry-level employees cannot properly grasp a decision matrix, which is why you see such things as bare limbs being patted down.
     
  17. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    And bald heads.
     
  18. LeeAnne

    LeeAnne Original Member

    I would like an answer to this question as well. Please answer. It's a valid question, and deserves a response.

    And to give a specific example: I was "patted down" by a TSO while wearing a post-surgical back brace. FULL pat-down. At the end of it, the TSO said that she was not comfortable clearing the back brace, and called over a supervisor. This supervisor proceeded to do a 2nd FULL pat-down, including contact with my breasts and genitals, even though she was told that 1) I'd already been patted down, and 2) the TSO had called her over solely because she wasn't comfortable clearing my back brace.

    My back brace was nowhere near either my breasts or my genitals. Please tell me why they were touched. Please.
     
  19. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    Id like to hear an explination as well.

    Im sorry those two are a bunch of idiots and need a bullet to the head instead of "retraining" thats not stupid or an idiot but highlight of imbecility.
     
  20. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Perhaps I am confused but I thought it was a court/jury that deemed a person a criminal, not the law.

    When TSA pat downs are done per SOP does it require the TSA screener to touch a persons penis, testicles, labia, anal region, or breast?
     

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