A liberal (and retired USAF Lt. Colonel) takes a stand

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Cartoon Peril, Oct 18, 2011.

  1. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    This TSA business is offensive to people of all shades of the political spectrum. Here's a story posted on the ultraleft Daily Kos that's well worth reading. Bottom line: you get arrested for reciting the constitution.
  2. AngryMiller

    AngryMiller Original Member

    The time to do this is after you've been processed otherwise they can claim that you interfered with the security process. There's not too much they can either say or do after the process is over and you begin commenting. They may not like the comments but they must listen to them. This is after having been threatened with arrest by the thieves, thugs and perverts infesting TSA on numerous occasions.
  3. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Apparently not offensive to the Transportation Stasi Administration!
  4. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    I wonder if Robert F. Dilley was one of the arresting officers.
  5. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    Daily Kos is fairly high-profile for a news site, isn't it? Hopefully this will grow legs. Better chance than most as the victim of the Terrorists Searching Americans is former military.

    At the very least, my elected officials are getting a copy of this story. This should be a good one to throw back in Schakowsky's face after her (expletive deleted) about "reasonable measures to preserve saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafetyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy."
  6. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    TSA is so totally afraid -- to the point of paranoia -- about having the 4th amendment highlighted at the checkpoints. I hope people like this doctor and Tobie (?) in Virginia keep bringing it up.
  7. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Not really news, although there is some of that, just a whole lot of lefty blather. It's got over 300,000 registered users, is really the biggest thing the left has in terms of blogs.
  8. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    Cool. Schakowsky and Durbin are dems and they've been the ones who've responded in a means I can rebut. Kirk seems too preoccupied with taxes and charter schools to give a damn about TSA (which is cool, I'll just vote against him if he doesn't want to care). If a left-aligned site like Daily Kos is taking issue then maybe that'll get Durbin and Schakowsky's attention.
  9. DeafBlonde

    DeafBlonde Original Member

    I doubt it CW. Since it was their "fearful leader" who instituted Scope-n-Grope as the primary screening process in the U.S., I doubt that they would take a stand against it. Just sayin... :(
  10. LeeAnne

    LeeAnne Original Member

    I'm a lefty. I believe the wealthy shouldn't have to pay lower tax rates than the poor. I believe that nobody should have to die from a curable disease because they got fired from their job due to being ill and couldn't afford to pay for healthcare insurance, and so couldn't afford life-saving treatment (as happened to my friend who had breast cancer). I believe that no loving couple should be denied the right to marry and raise children just because they happen to be the same sex (or of opposite races, or left-handed/right-handed). I believe that nobody should be denied the right to say goodbye to their partner of 28 years as he lay dying in the cardiac unit of a hospital because he's not "immediate family" so it's against hospital policy (as happened to my friends). I believe that no American should be forced to live under the tenets or precepts of a religion to which they do not subscribe. I have stood on street corners holding "No on Pro 8" signs while being spit on by "Christians" screaming vile names at me because I don't believe in their bible.

    I voted for Obama. I believe in his Jobs bill. I supported his health care reform, imperfect as it was it's better than what we had before (and it allowed me to add my 21-year-old daughter back onto our health insurance, after a nail-biting year in which she had no health insurance and had to live the entire year in agony because we couldn't afford to pay out-of-pocket for her impacted wisdom teeth surgery).

    I'm beyond disappointed that my "fearful leader" has not only done NOTHING about this bloated, perverted, out-of-control government agency that has now sexually assaulted me twice, he's JOKED about it in speeches (NOT funny). I wish to (expletive deleted) I didn't have to vote for him...but the only alternatives so far seem to be people who would foist Jesus down my throat and deny basic civil rights to my gay friends.

    I cannot understand why people think this is just a "righty" issue. Lefties don't like getting gate-raped either. If anything, I think this is even MORE a "lefty" issue - we lefties tend to be the ones who historically have marched for civil rights, and fought oppression.

    (By the way, I don't wish to actually "debate" my political viewpoints - just sharing so y'all can see that a dedicated liberal can be just as adamantly against the TSA as conservatives.)
  11. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    This is basically where I am. I've dealt for many years with family members who are all too happy to combine religious, political, and nationalistic ideologies and until TSA, I was a single-issue wonk with government endorsements of religion as my berserk button (TVTropes alert on both, prepare for time sink).

    I'm thiiiiiiiiiiiiis close to being an absolute single-issue voter on TSA and TSA alone. I remember what it was like to care about those other issues and I wish there were a candidate who addressed them all.

    That said, I feel relatively confident making TSA first and foremost among my priorities as it seems that the world in general tends toward reductions in religious fervor as time goes on and the LGBT-rights movement is gaining ground, albeit slowly.

    TSA conjures up way, way too many images of fascist police-states to ignore. My other political concerns are like the arsonist down the street gleefully rubbing his hands together as he contemplates the notion of burning down my house, but TSA is like the robber with a gun in my face RIGHT NOW. I have to survive the robber first before I can deal with the arsonist.
  12. LeeAnne

    LeeAnne Original Member

    GREAT post, Celtic! I'm not quite there yet in terms of making TSA my #1 priority in the voting booth...too many gay friends who, from their perspective, are not getting their civil rights fast enough. And while I hear ya about religious extremism being on-the-wan, I'm not sure I agree. I don't think the world is getting LESS religious - I think it's getting MORE religious. (expletive deleted), it's religious extremism that got us into this TSA mess in the first place (Islamic radicals and all that). And with GOP candidates holding mass prayer meetings and owning pray-away-the-gay clinics, atheists like me are shaking in our shoes! The last thing I want is to have the leader of the free world be a religious extremist, making decisions that affect me based on a religion that I do not believe in. That's exactly what the Taliban does.

    It is very heartening, however, to hear of lawmakers from both parties speaking out against the TSA, as in that Washington Times article you posted earlier. It's NOT a partisan issue...it's a basic human rights issue. Nobody should ever have to allow strangers to touch their genitals in order to travel...regardless of what party they belong to.
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  13. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    I thought about addressing the "forcing religion" issue but left it out of the last post as I don't want to derail the thread too much into other political issues.

    My thoughts regarding it are that while I find government endorsements of religion distasteful, the 1st Amendment does have our back against people outright being forced to adhere to a given religion and live their lives in practice of it.

    As far as goes the effort to force people into "religion-a-like" lifestyles by outlawing "sinful" acts one by one, there's not much they can do that the ACLU, the internet, or plain old human ingenuity can't get around.

    I definitely agree with you on...well, basically everything you've said. The only point of contention would be whether the world is getting more religious. I've seen many studies showing that fewer and fewer younger people are embracing religion. What I definitely believe is that those religious leaders who do still have followers are getting more and more intensely devout and trying harder and harder to hold onto their followings. But, as a certain princess once said, "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."

    I guess where I'm at right now is that if alcohol sales are outlawed on Sunday, there's nothing stopping me from buying a handle of Morgan on Saturday and drinking mai tais with my girlfriend (who, by the by, I share a house with...UNMARRIED! Oh the horror!) on Sunday morning while everyone else is in church. If found out, I cannot be arrested for that. The most I'd get is some churchgoer shaking their finger at me and they'd get me shaking mine (the middle one) right back.

    Conversely, as the USAF colonel's account shows, people can be arrested for what now seems to be "contempt of clerk" at a checkpoint. That's sending my red flags up big time.
  14. LeeAnne

    LeeAnne Original Member

    Yet another great post, with excellent food for thought. "Contempt of clerk" - perfect term. Yep, that's what she got arrested for. Terrifying, huh?
  15. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Historically, it is the party of Lincoln -- not the Democrats -- that have supported civil rights for most of the last 150 years.

    It was the Republicans who ended slavery and brought about the Reconstruction Amendments that applied the Bill of Rights to all levels over government, while the Democrats spent the next century promoting segregation.

    It was Eisenhower who sent federal troops in to enforce the courts' desegregation orders. It was a Democrat who introduced the amendment that extended the equal employment to women, not because he favored equal rights for women but because he thought it would sabotage the bill (his ploy backfired :D).

    The association of the "left" with civil rights in America is spurious and historically incorrect.
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  16. RB

    RB Founding Member

    :eek:If Contempt of TSA is a chargeable offense then I might get sent away for a very long time.
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  17. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    This is why I make a point to vote based on issue-stance rather than political affiliation. Any party can have candidates who value civil rights, and that may run along with or counter to historical trends.

    The key is finding them, vetting them, and voting for them.
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  18. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I believe that the more tuned in politicians are receiving the "TSA is AFU" message. The problem is how to get the denser ones to realize that fact.
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  19. LeeAnne

    LeeAnne Original Member

    Mike, you may be right...I'm definitely not a historian. However, certainly the make-up of the Republican party has changed dramatically in the past 100 years or so. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of the civil rights movements of the 60's - arguably a "liberal" or "lefty" effort, as opposed to conservatives, at least in terms of what liberals and conservatives looked like at that point in history.

    I tend to be skeptical of using party names to define political beliefs over the course of history, as they have changed so dramatically. I was actually raised in a Republican household, but that was the Republican party of that time - before it became so suffused with religious fundamentalism. My parents were Republican because of their fiscal views...but they always supported "liberal" social issues, particularly civil rights and freedom of religion. My mother, in fact, left the Republican party and became an independent after Pat Robertson announced his intention to run for president in 1986. She still strongly believes in "Republican" fiscal positions...she just can't accept their social positions or religious agenda.

    I found an interesting description of the difference between liberals vs conservatives:

    Given that description it would seem that civil rights is, at least today, more of a liberal issue - but on the other hand, conservatives believe in individual liberty, so I guess it's a toss-up. And I'm not sure this website is the best authority, because in a issue-by-issue table defining the views of liberals vs conservatives, it says this about Homeland Security:

    I couldn't disagree more. I actually don't know a SINGLE liberal (and I know lots ;)) who hold that "liberal" viewpoint described above! If anything, my liberal friends are even MORE opposed to this government oppression.

    Anyway, thanks for the history lesson! Interesting discussion.
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  20. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    After WW II the Democrats took the same view as Republican on civil rights, but it took them 20 years to get there. Eisenhower commanded a segregated army in WW II; Truman desegregated it.

    Humphrey was a long-time champion of civil rights but powerless in the southern-dominated Senate. LBJ was a bit of a surprise but came out swinging in area of civil rights after Kennedy checked out. However, it was a major miracle that his allies kept the Civil Rights Act of 1964 from being killed by his fellow Democrats. You can't help but wonder what he might have accomplished if he hadn't become bogged down in Vietnam (thank you, Kennedy & Eisenhower :td:).

    Since then I think it's largely been a wash as to which side is stronger on civil rights.
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