Abortion Politics USA (Was "requiring...", was was "Ron Paul...")

Discussion in 'What's On Your Mind?' started by Lisa Simeone, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    In most cases most people needing medical care would have no issue with them. This is being blow all out of out of proportion by a vocal lobby with an an agenda. I routinely see 3 different practitioners in three different clinics. I would have absolutely no qualms about obtaining these services from Catholic clinics or hospitals if the logistics worked out better for some reason. If I were in the habit of getting pregnant and needing abortions, I would add Planned Parenthood to the rotation rather than expect the cardiology or kidney specialists to provide that service. Likewise, if your clinic is St. Joe's & your assigned hospital is St. Al's, you probably ought to line up a 3rd provider for that abortion.
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  2. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Did you see my last post? The one where the bishop said that abortion is not permissible under any circumstances - even when the woman may die if she doesn't have the abortion? I think that woman's only agenda was to not die.

    This is all great, but what if all three of those clinics were owned by the catholic church? Then you have no options.

    I don't know how Planned Parenthood works in this case. I think they provide abortions in routine cases. I don't know what they do if some kind of surgery is required - like in my ectopic pregnancy example. Can they do that in their own clinic or do they have to have hospital privileges somewhere? If they have to have privileges, and the only option is a catholic hospital, I strongly suspect that the hospital would say 'no'.

    If that's the case and time is anywhere near 'of the essence' then the result is that a wholly preventable death occurs - the woman's death.
  3. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    News flash -- the wheels of justice take time. Even Catholics don't get it in a quick bolt of lightening from God.

    National Catholic Weekly: McBride un-excommunicated

    An interesting question now is the status of the hospital (St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center), which the bishop has declared to be non-Catholic. If they continue with the claim that this particular hospital is now non-Catholic, they're going to have a hard time using Catholicism as a reason not offering birth control at this particular now non-Catholic hospital.

    I'm glad they came to their senses with regard to the nun, but they might might have gotten themselves into a pickle with regard to upcoming healthcare requirements. :D
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  4. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    I believe Elizabeth Conley already addressed your ectopic pregnancy example. You would be treated. That example is a red herring.

    The example where the nun was temporarily shipped off to (expletive deleted) or limbo (not sure where you end up when you're excommunicated :eek:) involved a normal pregnancy complicated by a separate lift-threatening condition which would have killed both of them.
  5. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    No - according to this bishop, the abortion should not have occurred. He said abortion is never permissible.

    I'm glad the nun was un-excommunicated (is that a word ;) ?) but there was no retraction of the bishop's position on abortion. I can only assume that he means what he says.
  6. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    What I am against are shills using this issue as a wedge to keep us from having/regaining a freer country.

    Do women know they are being used by the Party or do they really choose My Body Uber Alles?
    The headline of this thread should read:
    Liberal Women's offensive War on Ron Paul
  7. Years ago I got a mailer for the democrat candidate in a senate race that said, "All you need to know is, I'm pro-choice, my opponent is not." That's when I realized what you're saying here. Of course I need to know more than that about a candidate! Actually, both candidates were sleazebags, but I did vote for the republican. He was marginally better, and that mailer was really offensive to me. And if I remember correctly, I think that republican was the now disgraced John Ensign. :rolleyes:

    Also, I sometimes wonder what it would be like if it were physically impossible to abort a pregnancy. Would we feel oppressed? What would be different in our society? Would we be more or less empowered by our reproductive reality? When I think about this, I realize there's a lot more to empowerment and freedom than the legal right to abort a pregnancy (which I'm not necessarily against, btw).
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  8. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    I hate stuff like that too. It feels a lot like blackmail.

    I think there's a sci-fi novel waiting in your post. :)
    phoebepontiac likes this.
  9. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    PP, you're not responding to the dog-whistle properly!;)
    You must be controlled by your fears of highly unlikely hypothetical outcomes, (and vote the Party line).
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  10. Monica47

    Monica47 Original Member

    The military will also not perform abortions unless the life of the mother is at stake. So far cannot find any exceptions for rape or incest either so guess you pay out of pocket in those circumstances from a civilian provider. This obviously is not from a religious standpoint. I assume it is because federal money would be used. I have known several young women who have had more than one abortion instead of using birth control and I do not understand that thinking. If you are not prepared to bring a child into this world then why not do everything you can to prevent that from happening. But sometimes even when using birth control pregnancy does happen and since I cannot walk in someone else's shoes then it is not my place to judge their decision as to what to do in the circumstances they find themselves in. I think I would not have an abortion but not having had to face that dilemma I don't know for sure and that is why I want every woman to be able to make that choice for themselves. I would like to thank everyone who has participated in this particular forum for making their points in such a civil manner and really making me think about this topic in ways I haven't done before.
  11. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    Bishops are wrong all the time. Don't believe me? Ask a bishop. There's huge diversity in the Catholic church. They hardly walk in lock-step together. They fight like cats and dogs.

    You don't really imagine a Catholic hospital wouldn't treat you for an extopic pregnancy, do you? Seriously, of course they would. They have and they will. It's not in the least controversial.
  12. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Doesn't that forming human deserve some consideration? Who is looking out for the future child?
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  13. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Nobody knows exactly when the "fertilized egg" becomes a human person. There is certainly a continuum between being a fertilized egg and becoming a person, and the principle here is exactly the same one operating when you shoot into a thicket at something that moves, thinking it is a deer, and instead, killing a human. If you don't know, you err on the side of safety.

    wrt all the other questions, the unborn child has been accorded protections and is still accorded protections say if you commit manslaughter against the mother, or attack the mother and kill the unborn child, that child is considered to be a person killed by you in many states, to this day.

    None of the other questions you raise have been seriously considered and are not serious, IMO. If they became issues in this era of the nanny state, it is the government's overreach that is the issue, not the principles in play here.
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  14. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    You're assuming the unborn child has no right its own life, even when it can sustain its own life (with medical help) outside the womb after only a relatively few weeks.
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  15. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    If you attempted to detach the ectopically implanted creature and attach it to the right location, that wouldn't be an abortion, even if the chances of success were very small, given the 100 percent of death otherwise.

    but like Mike said, all this stuff is a red herring. few of the million and millions of abortions are of this type.
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  16. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    Nope, if all three clinics have conscientious objections to providing the abortion you demand, you may be inconvenienced by a bit of travel in order to enter into a mutually satisfactory contract with someone who is willing and able to fulfill your request.

    Abortion is big business, and plenty of people have no problem providing them. Do business with those people.
  17. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Excellent short piece, far more articulate than I, on the matter of liberal/feminist women selling us all out to the police state (IMO) over the single issue of abortion, When Pro-Life Is Pro-Choice:
    Many of Santorum's supporters are single-issue voters too. Have fun with that. Contemplate the similarities.
    As Elizabeth said, authoritarians are always wrong.
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  18. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Hmmm. Pot to kettle? Voting based exclusively on the single issue of the TSA, which has been proposed in these forums many times, is different how?

    Personally, I've never voted single-issue in my life and am not about to start now.
    Rugape and barbell like this.
  19. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

  20. Monica47

    Monica47 Original Member

    Yes it does. But what about the female soldier that has been raped? At this point in time the military healthcare system doesn't even cover counseling for a soldier contemplating an abortion under these circumstances. Where is the consideration for her?
    Lisa Simeone likes this.

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