Anwar al-Awlaki Killed

Discussion in 'What's On Your Mind?' started by Bart, Oct 1, 2011.

  1. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    I don't have a problem with al-Awlaki being blown into little dust particles. I am a bit concerned about a US citizen being targeted for assassination by the US government. It opens an ugly potential for abuse. I think that many of us are not disturbed that another terrorist has been taken out. However, what happens the next time when a case that isn't so clear-cut but the US government nonetheless decides to kill another US citizen anyway?

    The little piece of rationale I'm clinging to is that al-Awlaki certainly understood the risks when it was made public that the US was gunning for him. He certainly could have taken himself out of the game. Instead, he stayed on the battlefield and remained a bonafide military target.

    We need to be careful about how much trust we're going to put in the US government when it comes to labeling fellow citizens as combatants and taking aggressive actions against them.
    lkkinetic and nachtnebel like this.
  2. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach


    He is a bonafide martyr now. The questions of his reward is a linguistic one, however. All those virgins might just turn out to be white raisins. 72 raisins won't last long.
  3. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    On to the next Emmanuel Goldstein.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  4. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    That he's gone is addition by subtraction without question. Yet Bart is right on here. How was his case adjudicated? He was termed a terrorist and sentenced to death without trial and executed without trial. Those same powers and process could be applied to any one of us at any time for any reason. Of course, this is not likely in current circumstances, but the same powers and process COULD be applied to us. It is up to the federal government to decide when and how? Where are such powers granted them?

    this solution, however convenient and desirable in its outcome, I think is not worth the cost...
  5. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    For once I agree with you. Like labeling people "domestic extremists" for refusing to put up with abuse from the TSA's clowns and thugs.
    FriendlySkies likes this.
  6. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Glenn Greenwald has written a lot on al-Awlaki for the past year at least. It is assassination of a U.S. citizen without due process. It goes against everything -- everything -- this country claims to stand for. It is a dangerous precedent.
    FriendlySkies and barbell like this.
  7. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    P.S. Furthermore, Jeremy Scahill, who has been in the belly of the beast of Al Qaeda and the Taliban, has said that Awlaki wasn't a high-level anything. The U.S. trumped up his supposed importance because he spoke perfect English -- and because they'll take any excuse to trump up any threat, as we know.
  8. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    On the other hand, if he has any ticked off survivors -- a wrongful death suit could easily end up in a U.S. District Court.
  9. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Washington Post: Secret U.S. memo sanctioned killing of Aulaqi

    Is Erich von Holder now signing secret death warrants -- judge & jury, executioner by proxy?

    What bother me is that we don't have any combat operations in Yemen. This might be acceptable in Afghanistan, might have been acceptable in Irag, but I'm thinking it's over the line in Yemen. Are we transforming from the world's policeman to the world's assassin?

    The guy killed with was best known as the publisher of a very unpopular magazine:

    This is rather undermines first amendment protections which were designed to protect unpopular speech to begin with. Is (well, was) Samir Khan noted for anything elsele?
  10. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    That secret memo wasn't so secret. The fact that al-Awlaki has been targeted for assassination has been publicly debated for some time now. I don't have a problem with killing him in Yemen, but that's the special ops operator in me talking: hunt 'em down no matter where they hide. I can appreciate the reluctance from a civilian perspective, and that's a healthy dose of skepticism; it's a good thing to have that point of view so that we don't go too far in our pursuit of terrorists. But this is really nothing new. The US government has chased down bad guys and put 'em out of their misery for years. I think this is just the most open we've been about it, and so it might come as a shock to some folks.

    As for Khan, he knew the risks. al-Awlaki was also a target by rival groups and intelligence services from other countries. So I'm not going to wring my hands over the fact that another US citizen was in close proximity. You waltz onto the battlefield where the bullets are flying, you put your own life in jeopardy.

    But I do agree with you that the US really needs to rethink this policy of killing US citizens without due process of law. No telling where it will go next, and that's the ultimate danger.
    AngryMiller likes this.
  11. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    What about overreaching searches without due process of law?
  12. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    They violate the Constitution and should never be permitted, nor should any administrative doctrine purporting to authorize them ever be allowed to exist. The performance of any such search for any reason by any actor of the government should be punishable by immediate termination without benefits, severance, or eligibility for reinstatement.
    Doober, AngryMiller and Lisa Simeone like this.
  13. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Dear god, what's happening?? I actually agree with Bart again!
    myadvice likes this.
  14. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    Don't be so shocked. The only thing some people in here hold against me is the fact that I work for TSA. Otherwise, we do have a lot in common. Some in here just don't want to admit that.
    FetePerfection likes this.
  15. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    The fact that someone works for the TSA isn't nearly as offensive as their actions while working for them. It tells me everything I need to know about their utter lack of anything resembling ethics, honor, or decency.
    Doober and AngryMiller like this.
  16. AngryMiller

    AngryMiller Original Member

    We see this occasionally with the last biggie being Waco and Ruby Ridge. Every so often a politician thinks they can get by with murder and more often than not they do.
  17. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Don't forget that the current U.S. Attorney General Erich von Holder was involved with both Ruby Ridge and Waco. In the 1990's he served as Janet "Barbecue" Reno's able henchman & Assistant Attorney General throughout the Waco debacle. Although the Ruby Ridge assassinations had occurred during the prior administration, it was the Justice Department of Janet "Barbecue" Reno & Erich von Holder that conducted the original prosecutions and which was censured by the trial court for introducing fabricated evidence. Their case was so bad that the defense merely rested.

    The verdicts: Kevin Harris acquitted of all charges, Randy Weaver acquitted of all but one misdemeanor count of failure to appear, many counts were dismissed outright by the judge for lack of evidence or because they weren't really crimes.

    Erich von Holder ranks as one of the administration's biggest all-time slimeballs.

    His legacy?

    Roll of the dead at Waco, for 76 of whom he bears direct responsibility:


    One memorial stone per victim, 76 of whom died in the inferno of Janet "Barbecue" Reno & Erich von Holder:


    One cherry tree per victim, 76 of whom died in the inferno of Janet "Barbecue" Reno & Erich von Holder:


    What's left of the building, thanks to Janet "Barbecue" Reno & Erich von Holder:



    This is the legacy of Janet "Barbecue" Reno & Erich von Holder. Do you really want this despot signing extra-judicial death warrants?
  18. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    I'm afraid the Waco comments reveal a lot. So I suppose David Koresh is exonerated of any wrongdoing? Sorry, friends, while I agree that there are a lot of things that could have been handled better, to portray Waco as a government-sponsored assassination of US citizens categorizes that in the conspiracy theory loony bin. What next? Aluminum foil ear plugs to disrupt signals from geosynchronous government satellites? I'm stepping away from this one.
  19. RB

    RB Founding Member

    What was it then?
  20. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Ruby Ridge was the assassinations. Waco was a military assault (twice actually -- first by BATF, then by FBI) on a building that housed 80 others, mostly innocent women & children who died when their home was assaulted by tanks & burned to the ground.

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