Discussion in 'Other Aspects of Aviation Security' started by RB, Jul 6, 2013.
Empanage appears to have departed just prior to landing. About 12:25 11:26 PDT Survivor #s unknown.
Early reports are suggesting everyone got off alive. Looks to me that the pilot landed short. Not speculating on cause, could have had a mechanical problem or just poor airmanship.
Take your coverage with a grain of salt. For example, KTVU reports this:
After wobbling for a minute, it appeared that the aircraft flipped upside down, coming to a stop on runway on it's back, according to witness Kathy Muhler.
Yet the same article shows a photo of the plain, upright.
The evacuation chutes were deployed and can be seen in some photos. There plenty of survivors, have not yet seen any confirmation that 100% survived.
KTVU: At least two dead in Boeing 777 crash at SFO
At least two people were killed Saturday when an Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 crashed and burst into flames while landing at San Francisco International Airport, a fire department source told KTVU.It was not known how many passengers have survived the crash, but victims were being taken to San Francisco General Hospital for treatment.Firefighters and emergency crews from San Francisco, Redwood City, San Mateo responded to the airport and dosed the burning plane with foam to extinguished the fully engulfed aircraft.
CNN: Boeing 777 crashes at San Francisco International Airport
Kristina Stapchuck saw the dramatic scene unfold from her seat on a plane on the airport tarmac. Soon after Flight 214 touched down, "it looked like the tires slipped a little bit and it rocked back," she told CNN. Parts of the plane began to break off as it rocked and then began to spin.
Sounds like maybe the landing gear collapsed (not locked? hard landing?) ...
Pictures show impact area just at waters edge and well before runway threshold. There is no question of landing short but that does not suggest a reason for landing short. I have not heard any reports of casulities at this time.
Edit to add
Fox reporting 48 injuries, possibly 2 deceased
It's a credit to crews' training & the attentive passengers who read the instructions by their emergency exits that so many escaped.
We've been thru evacuation training a couple times at Delta's flight attendant academy -- I'm hope we never have the opportunity to do that in a real situation.
A tweeted passenger (David Uun) photo that made it to NPR:
Note engine appears to have sheared off on the left side. 777 engine is huge -- you can stand in the cowling -- and it's not there. Can't wait for final release of XenFor 1.2 -- then I can just copy & past these pictures instead of download/upload.
It spun off the runway and ended up next to the water, I haven't seen any photos actually showing an impact short of the runway.
Right-side photo (post-fire) shows engine apparently separated and just ahead of the wing (perhaps separated just as spinning plane came to a stop?):
One would normally expect the engine either to be beneath the wing or somewhere behind the plane.
Fox has been streaming video that shows the plane struck the ground short of the runway. Debris field from edge of water and then down runway path.
The plane landed short!
Now reporting 61 injuries.
NBC News: Boeing 777 crashes while landing at San Francisco airport
The plane, Asiana Airlines Flight 214 from Seoul, came to rest beside the runway — missing its tail, spewing black smoke and with most of the top of the fuselage ripped or burned off. Multiple sources told NBC News that the early indication was that the plane came in too short on its landing and hit the seawall at the airport.
Some of these eyewitness reports are just nuts: Stefanie Turner, a witness, told MSNBC that she saw the plane come in with the tail in an unusually low position, then saw it cartwheel down the runway.
Cartwheel? I don't think so.
“The tail was too low. Instead of coming in flat it was coming in at a 45-degree angle, with the tail far too low,” she said. “It really went through quite a few acrobatics on the runway.”
Not sure I trust her observations after the "cartwheel" comment, but the 45-degree angle suggests loss of power/velocity/lift -- the pilot is trying to fly it out but can't. Wonder if this is a repeat of the 777 crash (BA 38) at LHR where both engines lost power short of the run way?
Why he landed short won't be known for a long time. Reports suggest an excessive nose up/high angle of attack attitude. Flight data recorder will show flight parameters.
That would be indication that he was trying to fly the plane but the plane wasn't responding.
There isn't lot to do in the final approach in one of these landings -- you just following the glide slope in or let the electronics do it for you. Unless he's doing a completely manual landing (which brings pilot error much more into the picture), that angle indicates something was not working right.
BA-38 crashed-landed short of LHR when ice crystals in the fuel starved both engines (Rolls Royce).
This last May GE & Boeing warned of another problem that could cause 777 engines to shut down in flight.
Latest casualty report (via Oakland Tribune) is 2 dead, 60+ injured. Other reports indicate that 10 of the injured are in crictial condition.
Conflicting casualty reports ...
Bookmark this (best place to keep checking for the offical scoop & the best of the rumors):
Aviation Herald: Accident: Asiana B772 at San Francisco on Jul 6th 2013, touched down short of the runway, broke up and burst into flames
Emergency services reported all occupants have been accounted for and are alive. Emergency services repeated ALL occupants have been accounted for in response to media reports that two people have been killed and said, these reports are untrue. A number of people were taken to hospitals with injuries of varying degrees....
ATC recordings show, the aircraft was on a normal approach and was cleared to land on runway 28L, no emergency services were lined up, all traffic was running normally. During a transmission of tower shouting in the back of the tower is heard, emergency services began to respond, all aircraft on approach were instructed to go around. The airport was closed. United flight 885, waiting for departure at the hold short line threshold 28L, reported people were walking around both runways, there were a number of people near the numbers of runway 28R, obviously survivors.
An observer on the ground reported that the approach of the aircraft looked normal at first, about 5 seconds prior to impact the aircraft began to look low and then impacted the edge ahead of the runway.
I was flight engineer on a flight where we landed short . We were what we called boost out (no power steering) on the elevator. Attitude was good but had a bit to much sink rate going and limited control response available. Tried using power to arrest the sink rate and make the runway but came up short.
In this case it could be all sorts of possible reasons.
Google Earth view with annotations added, via Aviation Herald above:
Separate names with a comma.