Asiana Airlines 777 Crash @ SFO

Discussion in 'Other Aspects of Aviation Security' started by RB, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Thanks for explaining that.
    Would think SFO foam trucks would be the first EMS to roll to the scene. Lots of injuries related to being thrashed while in seat restraints. Story notes some dragging and paralysis injuries.
  2. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    Most airports have limited EMS capability maybe 1-2 ambulances at most. Im not sure about California standards but firefighters have to be be a EMT at minimum (most are paramedic)as well as fire certs.

    In a MCI first unit on scene establishes command (until a officer (Lt or Capt) or Chief) and calls in a scene size up and requests of additional assets (ambulance, Fire, Change of alert status, striking additional alarms) and assigning tasks to units to triage/treatment, transport, logistics and other functions lined out in NIMS / ICS -- National Incident Management System / Incident Command System.

    This incident (according to SFFD & EMS Radio traffic, don't know about other systems radio traffic) went from a single alarm, yellow alert to a three alarm red alert within 10 mins of the crash/first units on scene so alot of resources responding that way with 20+ fire apparatus, 20+ medic units, mass causality units, RC (Rescue Captains), multiple Division & Battalion Chiefs from San Francisco, air assets amongst other resources from surrounding cities and San Mateo County . Those on scene did what they could but when the responders to victims ratio is high you have to do the best you can till help arrives as I know all to well when seconds feel like minutes and minutes feel like hours.

    I'm not surprised on those types of injuries considering the forces involved, but in a eminent danger situation priorities of life over limb come into play.
  3. RB

    RB Founding Member

    NTSB briefing going on at this time. Good info from both voice and systems data recorders.

    Early info suggests that the pilots (expletive deleted)'ed.
  4. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Amazing footage of the plane's tumble that I'm sure we'll see ad nauseum:
    I don't know how fast the plane was fully engulfed, it just seems incredibly fortunate people got out. I don't imagine there was much time to extract anyone, by the time EMS was there, to save anyone from fire.
  5. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    Video that has been shown in the background of the NTSB press conference on CNN. Is it me or did the airplane roll a complete 360 degrees after skidding for a bit after the tail strike?

    Id say so.
  6. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Plane spotters video of the landing:

    Pretty awesome clip, I can see where the discrepancies arise -- he came in level and very low, probably did clip his landing gear as well as the tail and (hypothesizing from this point on) perhaps also damaged the left engine as he tried to accelerate, which could explain the spin as the plane started to rise, and with no vertical stabilizer & tail rudder, the plane wouldn't have been steerable, nor could he have compensate for differential thrust when he was down to one engine.

    The 45 degree attitude was after the initial impact, not as he approached the runway.
  7. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    The commentary by Fred and another bystander strikes me as a little off, but considering the situation not unepected. Mr. Hayes is likely to get a few $$$ for that video from media, investigators, insurance companies and so on.

    SFO is one of those airports that planespotters like to hang out at, and It was only a matter of time before video or stills of the accident surfaced
  8. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    NTSB timeline of the events in the cockpit is out.

    Irony: There were also reports that rescue crews & police where throwing knives up to the crew so they could cut seatbelts -- this after flight attendants fought so hard to block TSA's change to allow small knives.
    DeafBlonde and Rugape like this.
  9. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    I suspect he already sold it to CNN and the YouTube copies will be removed in due time.

    This particular plane spotter needs to invest in a decent telephoto lens.
  10. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    Pretty much and this is why so many of the rules that TSA has implemented make no sense in theory or reality. The Knife/multi-tool I carry on a daily basis is not a weapon it is a tool of life/trade. 99% of the population doesnt even know how to fight with a knife and joe/jane blow could take it away from an aggressor...yes your likely to sustain some cuts and lacerations but that is it.
    Rugape likes this.
  11. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    KTIC: NTSB: Asiana Airline Approached Runway Below Target Speed(July 7 2013)

    The cockpit voice recorder was found to have a 2-hour long, good quality recording, and the data recorder recorded 1,400 parameters of data, capturing the entire flight.

    According to Deborah Hersman, chair of the NTSB, the approach to the runway was normal. There was no discussion between the pilots of any aircraft anomalies or concerns with approach. An examination of the data recorder found that the plane was approaching the significantly below the target speed of 137 knots, or a little over 157 miles per hour. When asked how much slower, Hersman would only say that “we're not talking about a few knots.”

    Crew members called to increase speed seven seconds prior to impact. The sound of a stick shaker, a device which jostles the controls in the pilot’s hand to indicate a stall is imminent, was heard four seconds prior to impact.

    The engines appeared to be responding properly when the pilots attempted to increase speed, but it was already too late.

    A call to initiate a go-around and attempt to abort the landing, occurred 1.5 second before impact.

    All the systems that were required were operable and weather conditions were clear when the plane crashed. The glide slope operation was not functional, but it is not required by the FAA in good weather conditions.

    It took the crew 5.5+ seconds to respond when they were < 100' off the ground -- no room for dallying!

    My recollection from looking at the maps yesterday is that 28L is 9-13' above sea level, so they quite litterally came close to ditching it in San Francisco Bay.
  12. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I have been in a bunch of landings from over water to runways similar to the SFO. They keep talking about not being able to judge height well when over water but when other clues are available such as structures and other things on the airport the sight clues are pretty good. When this height above water is more an issue is when there are no other landmarks. We routinely flew at 200 feet above the water without problem.

    I hope the pilots are honest when their interviews start. I just don't understand how they got that low unless they were not aware of the displaced threshold and even then they were to low.
  13. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Photos from @NTSB today:

    NTSB 107.jpg NTSB 106.jpg NTSB 105.jpg NTSB 104.jpg NTSB 103.jpg NTSB 102.jpg NTSB 101.jpg
  14. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    More from @NTSB:

    1. [​IMG]NTSB@NTSB 2h
      The throttles were advanced a few seconds prior to impact and the engines appear to respond normally. #Asiana 214

    2. [​IMG] NTSB@NTSB 2h
      The data indicate that the throttles were at idle and the airspeed slowed below target approach speed during the approach. #Asiana 214

    3. [​IMG] NTSB@NTSB 2h
      FDR contained 1400 parameters and captured the entire flight. #Asiana 214

    4. [​IMG] NTSB@NTSB 2h
      Preliminary results revealed: 24 hours of recorded data. #Asiana 214

    5. [​IMG] NTSB@NTSB 2h
      An initial review of FDR data was conducted. #Asiana 214

    6. [​IMG] NTSB@NTSB 2h
      Call to go around made approx. 1.5-sec prior to impact. #Asiana 214

    7. [​IMG] NTSB@NTSB 2h
      Sound of stick shaker began approx. 4-sec prior to impact. #Asiana 214

    8. [​IMG] NTSB@NTSB 2h
      Target speed for the approach was 137 knots. #Asiana 214

    9. [​IMG] NTSB@NTSB 2h
      The flight was cleared for the visual approach to RWY 28L, which is confirmed by the crew. #Asiana 214

    10. [​IMG] NTSB@NTSB 2h
      Recording began in cruise flight. #Asiana 214

    11. [​IMG] NTSB@NTSB 2h
      Preliminary results revealed: 2 hour recording...good quality. #Asiana 214

    12. [​IMG] NTSB@NTSB 2h
      An initial review of CVR data was conducted. #Asiana 214

  15. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    One more from @NTSB:

    NTSB 108.jpg
  16. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

  17. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    Link, as that could be interpreted a couple of ways. IE ejected out of the aircraft (rear pressure hull) then run over during the pirouette or ?????
  18. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Where's a sharp object when you need one:
  19. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    I had the same thought.
    Mayor Lee, notwithstanding his weasely words, seems to point to EMS Fire in his response:

    Poor girl shouldn't have been anything but safe on the plane.:(
  20. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Did the pilot's 43 hours in a 777 include this flight?

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