Asiana Airlines 777 Crash @ SFO

Discussion in 'Other Aspects of Aviation Security' started by RB, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach


    They have to start sometime, somewhere.

    Besides those 43 hours, he had another 9000+ hours of time.

    The 777 is at the top of the seniority hierachry at most airlines, so as positions open you will have a steady stream of highly qualified first officers moving up to the 777.

    It will be interesting to find out who was at the controls, and if the PIC was in one of the seats.
     
  2. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Agreed. A needless, cheap shot that others will make anyway.
    About the rest of the cockpit: with the number of hours among them, pretty hard to explain their (in)actions. At least they started to scream over the intercom to evacuate after the plane *came to rest*.:eek:
     
  3. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Don't normally log your time until the end of a flight.
     
  4. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    Ill bite my touch on SF politics, but would expect nothing less from a politician then to try and throw FD/EMS under the bus (No pun intended).

    Persons ejected typically talking MVA so 100MPH or less not the forces involved in a crash like this. The injuries are substantial and as the speed/force increases the injuries are exponentially worse.
     
  5. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    And also keep in mind that sims are so realistic that sim time counts as time in type: First officers typically go from sim to actual flying in the right seat. They don't take 777's out for Sunday drives

    For all all we know this could have have been his first trip in real 777. Still he was very experience pilot and the novelty of the aircraft should be no excuse for such a disastrous landing.

    We now know (maybe some you of did :) but I'm just catching up after doing other stuff for a couple hours) that the newby was at the controls. There was a also a more senior first officer at the controls, and presumably the PIC -- whose head is also going to roll for this -- was in a jumpseat watching.
     
  6. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    KrazyKat and TravelnMedic like this.
  7. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Yahoo! News: Asiana says pilot of crashed plane was in training

    "He has a lot of experience and previously flown to San Francisco on different planes including the B747... and he was assisted by another pilot who has more experience with the 777," the spokeswoman said.

    Lee, who started his career at Asiana as an intern in 1994, has 9,793 hours of flying experience, but only 43 hours with the Boeing 777 jet.

    Co-pilot Lee Jeong-min, who has 3,220 hours of flying experience with the Boeing 777 and a total of 12,387 hours of flying experience, was helping Lee Kang-kook in the landing, the spokeswoman said.
     
  8. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    With regard to the trainee's prior 747 experience, one has to ask in what position? The 747-400 & older have three-man cockpits. Second officer basically is a a flight engineer. The way airlines do things (unlike the old days with super-complex quad turbo-props, e.g. Constellations & DC-6/7), these are qualfied pilots working their way up the pecking order, but I doubt they get much time in the front seats.
     
    RB likes this.
  9. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Not the newbie of the crew (b.1967), CNN:
     
  10. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    I hope the NTSB looks at how damaged the seats (and their occupants) became, not that planes are expected to be thrashed like this.
     
  11. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    The newby was an ex-747 Jockey:



     
  12. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    It's a credit to Boeing & the 777 that it survived this well. If you look at the rear of the fuselage, the cross-section is no longer circular; the cabin floor has to collapse somewhat in that scenario. Basically the fuselage (possibly with one or both engines still running, sans wheels) was thrown up in the air, spun to the left & dumped on the ground. I think it did pretty well.
     
  13. RB

    RB Founding Member


    Not to quibble but the the Connie L-1049, DC-6, and DC-7 were all piston powered airplanes. There may have been some re-engined in later years to turboprop but I don't know that as a fact. Turboprops that come to mind are the C-130, P-3, and perhaps one of the largest Russia's Tupolev TU-95.

    Just my opinion but from an operational point of view I think the old piston engines were more complex to operate than the turbo-props, at least the ones I was around.
     
  14. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    I was referring to the compound turbochargers on those engines, at least in their final evolution such as the DC-7 & the Constellation 1649A (Starliner, soon to flying again for Lufthansa), probably a bad way to word it given the really obvious ambiguity.
     
  15. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    Have to admit that I have not been following this at all. However, in an interview on the local news last night, a passenger said she got her child and then gathered her luggage!!!!! The networks news showed only the initial part of the interview with her - was that deliberate to save her from being pummeled by unknown others?

    How stupid, self-centered, unaware can one be?
     
  16. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    The passengers were pummeled, severely injured by luggage that tumbled out of the bins that opened during the wreck. Everyone was off the plane in under 10 minutes, before most help arrived on scene. No harm done, and maybe helpful to remove bags in the way, in this case.
     
  17. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I just heard a report that the VASI**, a visual indication of position along the glide slope from lights at the approach end of the runway, were not in service as well as electronic Glide Slope instruments. Shouldn't have made a difference but VASI is helpful to confirm position on approach.

    **http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_approach_slope_indicator
     
  18. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    I agree completely. I'm suggesting, based on the injuries, that NTSB might look at whether the seats, or bins--I can see the distortion affecting those in particular--might hold up better. Not suggesting design standards for 777s as dune buggies, but you don't want to survive impact only to be crushed by your seat either.

    The slides (plural) inflated in the plane, among the challenges the exiting faced. Considering the state of the cabin, it is miraculous people got out of there alive and so fast.
     
  19. RB

    RB Founding Member

    If anything in commercial airplanes need a redesign or complete removal it would be overhead bins. Even in moderate turbulence the bin doors pop open. Either a better locking device needs to be installed or removal of the bins all together. Seat attachments were improved after a previous accident but I don't recall how long ago. I don't know what g loads encountered were but I have little doubt that it was very high. I think seats staying attached to the rails is remarkable given the circumstances.
     
  20. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member


    http://dawn.com/news/1023649/asiana-boeings-crash-crew-used-knives-to-cut-passengers-seat-belts



    I wonder how many passengers had injuries directly related to their inability to exit the plane for lack of a knife.
     
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