Asiana Airlines 777 Crash @ SFO

Discussion in 'Other Aspects of Aviation Security' started by RB, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    One of the chutes that inflated in-cabin, nearly smothering an FA, for want of something sharp was finally punctured using an emergency hatchet--not as useful for more delicate cutting needs.
     
  2. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    I believe that's incorrect. The NOTAMs showed only glide slope unavailable for 28L on the day of the crash. Other facilities were schedule to be taken out of service yesterday & today. Will check later. Google SFO NOTAM if you want to read them yourself, but they're really cryptic.
     
  3. RB

    RB Founding Member


    Aircraft emergency axes that I have seen all have a sharp pick end (like an ice axe) in order to puncture the aircraft skin.

    https://www.staniosindustrial.com/P...2GD56&zmam=38232866&zmas=1&zmac=1&zmap=22GD56
     
  4. RB

    RB Founding Member


    Perhaps, it was a pilot interview I heard on the radio this morning. Those interviews have been all over the place but I did find this. This may have been after the arrival of the 777 and it may have taken out the light boxes.

    !SFO 07/046 SFO RWY 28L PAPI OTS WEF 1307062219
    CREATED: 06 Jul 2013 22:19:00
    SOURCE: KOAKYFYX

    NOTAM SFO 07/029
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_approach_path_indicator
    A precision approach path indicator (PAPI) is a visual aid that provides guidance information to help a pilot acquire and maintain the correct approach (in the vertical plane) to an aerodrome or an airport. It is generally located beside the runway approximately 300 metres beyond the landing threshold of the runway.
     
  5. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    I haven't seen one that I'd call "sharp" - a spike to puncture aluminum or steel is going to be a bit blunter than one to puncture heavy-gauge rubber or vinyl.

    With enough room to swing, it shouldn't make a difference - but a single pocketknife might have done the job quite surgically in comparison. Heck, even a Swiss-Tool Utili-Key might have done it.
     
  6. RB

    RB Founding Member


    Sharp enough but aren't emergency axes in the cockpits nowadays in order to keep them out of the hands of the scary passengers? From the cockpit to the back of a 777 is a long hike when its burning, filled with smoke, people trying to escape, and crap thrown everywhere.
     
    Caradoc likes this.
  7. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Yep. Hand-to-pocket-to-problem is a lot shorter trip.
     
  8. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Out of service as of Saturday evening (but notice the precise time on the NOTAM, & see below).

    Some of these outages were planned. They are moving the touchdown threshold 300' back from the end of the runway and need to move the equipment so as to guide planes to the correct new location.
     
  9. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Need to know how the chute was configured at that exit.

    Some deploy automatically when the door is opened. For others you have to make sure it's outside, then reach down to the floor and pull a cord that inflates the chutes.

    If you ever get a chance to go through Delta's "Road Warrior Training" at their FA school, it's a blast and you get to play with all that stuff. Some links and photos are here if you're interested. We did our water ditching excercise from a 777 section over a swimming pool (very nice jump on a 95 degree Atlanta day!).

    It's clear from some of the experiences in this rescue that we've gone too far in "de-knifing crews & pax".
     
  10. RB

    RB Founding Member


    Some pilots sites are having same discussion. Some are saying that it was working while others are saying they were being relocated. I would expect the NOTAMS to state that and best I can tell they do not support that the lights were not working. I'm going with working until something proves that wrong.
     
  11. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    There were two other facilities on 28L that were scheduled to be out of service on Sunday & Monday according to the NOTAMs.

    When I looked earlier Saturday, there were no NOTAMs scheduled to take effect on Saturday. The precise time (2219) on the the NOTAM suggests that they discovered the lights were out of service because some bozo had been offroading in his 777.
     
  12. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Bet the lights are displaced now.
     
  13. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Co-pilot into SFO.
     
  14. RB

    RB Founding Member

    We know a heck of a lot about this flights last minutes. We pretty much know what happened we just don't know why. The why will help to prevent future occurences.
     
  15. RB

    RB Founding Member

    As a former member of a cockpit crew and having a safety of flight role I found this article about the Asiana accident interesting.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/100869966?__...=yahoo&doc=100869966|Korean Culture May Offer

    Korean Culture May Offer Clues in Asiana Crash

     
  16. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    That sounds an awful lot like the Japanese concept of "haragei."
     
  17. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

  18. RB

    RB Founding Member

  19. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    the pprune link had my jaw drop.
     
  20. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    RB's alluding to some internal discussion we had of the heavy-handed moderation going on in the Asiana thread at that "other place", brings back memories of what led us to create TUG in the first place.

    I had posted some info on the the implications of using Korean in the cockpits, but the self-aborbed Nazis deleted it before I could copy it here. Basically, when KAL flew into a hill on Guam, the cockpit crew was speaking in a very formal, deferential, honorific style of Korean that rendered it completely impossible for the crew members to tell the captain he was flying into a hill. This led to a number of changes, including the use of English for everything (not just ATC communications) in KAL cockpits.

    We know from the NTSB that the crew was speaking English to one another, so at some of these reforms have made to Asiana, but we don't really have the whole picture yet.

    That PPRUNE post was an eye-opener.

    Meanwhile, if you're hanging out at the "other place" please keep in mind that the view is heavily filtered. I further removed all of my remaining contributions to the thread when I noticed that the axe of censorship was swinging widely. Apparently I wasn't the only one who had noticed and complainsx, because this morning we had this fine example of the the worst that the "other place" has to offer, concluding with one of their customary threats from the self-entrenched moderator-class:


    Even RP (founder of the "other place") himself realized how badly run amok the moderator system had become at the "other place" and did not retain it at his new site.
     

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