ATK Secures .40 Caliber Ammunition Contract with DHS, ICE

Discussion in 'What's On Your Mind?' started by Lisa Simeone, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    ATK Secures .40 Caliber Ammunition Contract with Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE)
    The press release goes on to brag about hollow-point bullets.

    This is some sick (expletive deleted).

     
  2. RB

    RB Founding Member

    What do you want them to carry? Perhaps you favor Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) that will pass through a human target and possibly kill an innocent bystander?
     
  3. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    I'm wondering who DHS thinks they're going to shoot.
     
  4. RB

    RB Founding Member

    U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE), armed federal LEO's. What with the gun running these people are doing an armed confrontation is not unlikely.

    I would have added FAM's but from my discussion with the ones I know they use .357 SIG.
     
  5. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    It's interesting that the militaries of the world are banned from using HP for humanitarian reasons, (typically they use full metal jacket) by the Hague convention of 1899. Yet police use them on civilians. (okay, they are more frangible, so it makes sense to use them for inside-aircraft work.)
     
  6. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    ICE folks patrolling the borders wind up in armed conflict far more than I would like to see. They are faced with armed people trying to cross the border illegally quite often. They do not have OK Corral shootouts much, but there are hot fire situations.

    Side note, hollow points are a much better option for most law enforcement situations requiring deadly force, in that they have a tendency to be better contained in the first soft tissue item that it hits. Whereas full metal jacket rounds have more possibility of maintaining their integrity and tranferring energy to another target after initial contact.
     
  7. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I started to mention that little fact but didn't see it making any difference to this discussion although that was my reason for pointing out the option of using FMJ.
     
  8. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    They also round up kids and parents at schools, arrest people while at work, and shut down internet sites that they think are infringing someone's copyrights. I'm not at all sure that bullets of any kind are a good idea in these non-violent situations.
     
  9. RB

    RB Founding Member

  10. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    I'm only talking about the use of guns in places like schools and work, not the deportation issue itself. One trigger-happy ICE agent and you could end up with dead kids. I don't care if the kid is in the country illegally - deport them if you want, but don't kill them.

    And do the ICE agents and DHS agents use these guns to seize domain names? Talk about over kill.
     
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  11. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    They're also banned from using instruments of torture such as Tasers, but police departments seem to have no issues with "pain compliance".

    But 450 million rounds?
     
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  12. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    I am not too keen on picking anyone up at a school unless it is a last option or they are forcing the situation that direction. It is just as simple to make a traffic stop a few blocks away (although there are tactical challenges with that), or just follow them until they stop somewhere and take them down there. ICE agents go through training at FLETC, and have many of the same classes that US Marshals, FAMS and other LEO entities have. Just like most police departments and federal LEO branches, the ICE agents are no more likely to be trigger happy than anyone else that carries a gun under color of law - some will always make it through that are trigger happy, although they will be a minute percentage of the workforce (this applies anywhere, not just to DHS or ICE).

    A trigger happy anyone LEO is a bad situation waiting to happen and can result in the same thing. Shooting someone (as a LEO) is always the last resort and should be a response only to save yourself or others in imminent danger.

    I have never heard of seizing a domain name with a weapon involved in the process, I thought that seizing a domain name was simply done through electronic means? (seriously, I thought that was entirely an electronic process with a notification to the end user/owner)
     
    nachtnebel likes this.
  13. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    They showed up with guns at the arrests of those Anonymous, LulzSec, and Megaupload people.
     
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  14. RB

    RB Founding Member

    If they are armed LEO's why would you think they would not have weapons on their person regardless of what task they are undertaking? Around here School Resource Officers (uniformed police stationed at schools) are armed.

    Would it be your expectation that police, federal, state or local, not be armed when on duty?
     
  15. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    That was a bit of a different situation, that was actually taking person(s) into custody, the domain seizures are (from my understanding) and electronic operation that is done almost entirely on computers/web systems. If I were any LEO, and I were going to arrest or serve warrants on person(s), I would take my weapon as well, as that is part of the uniform description. Any time that you are taking someone into custody (whether at a scene or by sefving warrants) it is a high stress situation and any competent LEO would want all available tools to be on scene with them.
     
  16. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    LEOs are required to maintain weapons proficiency and practice regularly, and in many cases the organization provides the rounds required for said practice and qualifications. The statement had a maximum of 450 mil, but the actual verbiage is indefinite quantity/indefinite delivery, which means they will be able to order against that ceiling for the next five years, but can't go past 450 mil total. At least, that is what I took from it.
     
  17. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Wondering if the ground rumbling up in Clintonville is from Rugape and myself agreeing on some things?:)
     
    Rugape likes this.
  18. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    some of which will show up in the surplus market to be available at a discount. I only wish some of it were .45 and maybe 9mm.
     
  19. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I'll sign up for some 9mm, .44 Mag, and 45 ACP. A few .357 Mag for my Savage Over & Under would be nice too.

    Pretty easy to find "Law Enforcement Only" ammo at the local gun shows. Besides, might want to pick up a .50 cal in case I want to go squirrel hunting this spring.:rolleyes:
     
  20. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    I have a couple of boxes marked that way myself, mine are all 9mm though. Most LEOs are getting away from the 9mm due to the lack of energy it transfers. Seems like most of the surplus 9mm markets will get less profuse over the next few years, although I think the military services still use them in many cases. I know that Army MP Corps still uses the military version of the Beretta, and most Army CID members carry the Sig P228-229, and there are a handful of smaller concealed handguns that we carried during undercover operations, so the market will not dry up completely.
     

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