Awareness - Doing My Part

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Sky Dancer, Dec 17, 2011.

  1. Sky Dancer

    Sky Dancer Original Member

    Sorry, I haven't been around much lately. I've had 3 European trips, back to back in the past month, and my clock is tilting a bit. But here's my latest story, and I hope others will join in.

    I printed a butt load of ducuments about the scanners, and keep them on my case. (Just copied Monica's link on the Broward County post.)

    Went through IAH, and got the "Why did you opt-out" question. Then I got the standard "It's only Radio Waves" statement. Then, I said (loudly) "I have documentation that says otherwise. Would you like a copy?" (He declined.)

    However, at the gate, I was approached by an elderly lady, who asked, "Is this radiation thing true?" I gave her some copies to read, along with some TUG information. I had 3 others ask me during the wait for the flight. The gate area was slightly buzzing for awhile. 2 people were actually discussing this.

    About 10 minutes before boarding there were 2 Smurfs standing in the corner giving me the "Stink Eye". (Nothing became of it)

    I *did*, however, educate a few more travelers of our cause, and I'm sure they'll pass the word along.
  2. Doober

    Doober Original Member


    Good for you!
  3. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Bravo, Sky Dancer!
  4. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

  5. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    This is great. Thank you.
  6. Monica47

    Monica47 Original Member

    Excellent. Educating travelers one by one who will pass it on to someone else and hopefully the ball will continue to roll.
  7. RadioGirl

    RadioGirl Original Member

    Friendly Skies Complete List of Airports with body scanners says that the terminals at IAH are MMW, which is, indeed, "just radio waves". What is the documentation you have that says "otherwise"?

    I applaud you if you oppose the NoS on constitutional grounds, on privacy grounds, because of its outrageous cost, the fact that it's slow and/or that you can't watch your belongings while being scanned. Oppose it because it's humiliating to make innocent passengers stand in a pose of surrender. There are many very solid reasons to educate people about the NoS.

    But please don't claim that MMW is not radio waves, when in fact it is; such lies are easily disproved and only make those who oppose TSA look foolish. The TSA uses lies to persuade people to their point of view; we, on the other hand, must take the high moral ground in this fight.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  8. Affection

    Affection Original Member

    I think OP means that saying it's "just radio waves" doesn't tell the whole story... that it's "just radio waves" that are untested for harm, photograph you naked, and are utterly ineffective at security. :)

    Lisa Simeone and KrazyKat like this.
  9. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Also the average traveler should not have to analyze & distinguish between the different types of nude-o-scopes. As long as (1) x-ray scopes are in use and (2) TSA employees themselves are too stupid to know & understand the difference , nude-o-scopes are to be avoided for health reasons, period. KISS principle -- Keep It Simple Silly/Stupid-- x-ray nude-o-scopes are out there, avoid nude-o-scopes.

    Perhaps should add a 3rd condition -- nude-o-scopes are not operated by properly trained & licensed personnel: All imaging equipment used on humans should be operated by certified & licensed radiologists or radiological technicians.
    Lisa Simeone and KrazyKat like this.
  10. Sky Dancer

    Sky Dancer Original Member

    Exactly, Jon.

    These statement are deceiving.
    I removed the door from my Microvave so you can dry your hands. It's just radio waves.;)
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  11. Sky Dancer

    Sky Dancer Original Member

    I don't make any claims that they are *not* radio waves, however, people have to understand, that radiation *is* a form of radio waves. By saying "it's only radio waves" is deceitful on their part, and we should call them out on it.
  12. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    I believe RadioGirl when she says that MMW exposure is either benign or at least drastically less harmful than BKSX-posure.

    What irritates me about "it's just radio waves" isn't the veracity of the claim as much as the dismissive tone with which it's stated. It's not made to try to allay the traveler's concerns, it's made as a "shut up and obey" statement. There's an unspoken 2nd half that goes "so quit your whining and get in there."

    That's what should always be fought back against - their attitude that people have to comply with anything and everything they say.
    RadioGirl and Lisa Simeone like this.
  13. Leave no trace

    Leave no trace Original Member

    We should be able to reply - You do it first, then I will decide if I will follow your example.... :)

    Of course, any PAX with a brain will watch the clerk get an "unknown dose" and then decide that they will not take part in the scanner dance.

    It might help thin out the blue herd !
    Fisher1949 likes this.
  14. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
    KrazyKat likes this.
  15. RadioGirl

    RadioGirl Original Member

    It's the other way around: radio waves are one form of "radiation". Radiation in the general sense means energy transfer from one place to another. Sound is a form of radiation, light and the ripples of water on a pond are also forms of radiation. Radiation, in this sense, is not intrinsically dangerous.

    But to the general public, "radiation" has become associated with the particular, dangerous subset "ionizing radiation" of x-rays, gamma waves, nuclear weapons, etc. It's associated with words like "radioactivity" and "radiation sickness."

    The x-ray NoS is ionizing radiation. The MMW NoS is not. Saying that people are receiving "radiation" from the MMW scanners is like saying that they're receiving radiation from the PA system (sound radiation) or the florescent tubes in the ceiling (light radiation). If you mean "radiation in the general sense", it's true but irrelevant. If you mean "radiation in the ionizing radiation sense", it's untrue. It doesn't help to get people worried about "radiation" from a MMW scanner; there are enough other (true) reasons they should be worried.

    Yes, "it's just radio waves" is dismissive (it ignores the privacy issues, etc) but it is not false. And I agree that most passengers and many TSA employees don't know the difference between MMW and x-ray, so there are issues with confusion. All I'm asking is that we don't add to the confusion by claiming that MMW is "scary" radiation.
    Lisa Simeone, KrazyKat and Fisher1949 like this.
  16. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    As an admitted misanthrope, I really couldn't care less what any of the sheep in line think and won't hesitate to make my opinion known.

    That said, many people are too susceptible to perceived peer pressure in public settings and will do all sorts of things that they wouldn't otherwise do in their daily lives. Unfortunately, this common character flaw makes TSA's job easier and allows them to leverage a minority to get coerce the majority into complying with their agenda.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  17. jtodd

    jtodd Original Member

    I understand the differences, e.g. alpha, beta, gamma, radio, etc. I don't approve of the 2 different machines, on a basic level, due to indecency, invasive beyond an administrative search, and lastly due to a search without cause or warrant. I additionally disapprove of the xray scanner due to the radiation and just flat out gall of a government agency using it without regard.

    If you want to see the interesting part, go to the 3 minute mark.
  18. RadioGirl

    RadioGirl Original Member

    And your comparison is deceiving. The frequency used by your microwave is EXACTLY the same frequency as WiFi, bluetooth and many cordless phones. They're just radio waves.

    The difference is that the microwave oven power is ~1000 watts and WiFi, Bluetooth and cordless phones are < 1 watt. Try cooking something in front of a WiFi access point.

    The power in a MMW scanner is ~1/100,000 of the power of a cell phone. It's just radio waves. If there was as much power as a microwave oven, people would feel it burning their skin.

    As jtodd said in post #17, the offensive part of the MWW scanner is the "indecency, invasive beyond an administrative search, and lastly due to a search without cause or warrant".
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  19. RadioGirl

    RadioGirl Original Member

    Agree with every word. And yeah, the video is pretty chilling.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  20. Sky Dancer

    Sky Dancer Original Member

    I *do* understand. Occasionly, I blow things out of proportion for a bit of humor.

Share This Page