Baltimore Sun's Michael Dresser TSA Apologist - Again

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Lisa Simeone, Aug 13, 2011.

  1. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    I can't comment because I don't know which AIT they use at DFW. As I posted either here or elsewhere (lose track), I always pre-test devices before running them on officers. I have yet to come across something the AIT cannot detect with its technology. So I tend to believe it to be operator error.
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  2. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    Yeah, but you don't know TSA. :p

    As for employees standing around, send them down my way. Ours don't stand around waiting for something to do.
  3. RB

    RB Founding Member

    No, what was suggested was this: How about a minor change to TSA policy. That TSA must document every pat down from WBI alarm,
    Typical TSA to take something fairly simple and make it impossible.
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  4. RB

    RB Founding Member

    The only WBI I have personally seen in use at DFW are L3 MMW units. Does that help?
  5. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I cannot believe that TSA would not broadcast to its training staff exactly how a tester was able to introduce any type of contraband into the so called sterile area.

    Is TSA really that incompetent?
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  6. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    so the cost of avoiding a potential sex organ rubdown is letting you look at our bodies under our clothes. This is an intollerable choice.

    if a machine is so poorly calibrated that it flags bra clasps, or zippers, or crotch sweat and results in sex organ feel-ups. there is only one choice. dump the machine.

    your reluctance to feel up people is praiseworthy, but I notice that you do get over it rather quickly and feel people over even though you KNOW this is a false alarm in 99.99999% of the cases. If the machine can do no better than this, dump it.

    If indeed you have made sacrifices in defending freedoms, it makes it all the more puzzling to me why you p*ss over your own sacrifices and those made by other servicemen who actually did get shot or killed precisely so their own countrymen would NOT have arbitrary law and forced strip searches and forced sex organ groping at a government agent's command. You are implementing exactly what they sacrificed to prevent. The 4th Amendment is crystal clear. It was also unfortunately, too restrictive for the federal power, so it has been dispensed with. It now only serves to keep criminals out of jail in some very narrow cases, and no longer prevents harm to innocent citizens--does not keep your hands out of our genitals when we have done nothing wrong. It is impossible for me to appreciate your personal sacrifices when you have your hand up my crotch and your partner's hands are up my wife's crotch and over her breasts when our only crime is boarding an aircraft and having zippers in our trousers or a bra clasp that annoyed some badly made machine.
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  7. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    9/11 did not negate my citizenship. 9/11 did not negate the U.S. Constitution.

    Hardened cockpit doors and a no-longer-docile flying public solved the 9-11 problem. Everything invented since has been an expensive boondoggle, window dressing or a violation of our Constitutional rights.
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  8. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    It seems to me that this manner of tracking opt outs is incredibly dishonest.

    Just yesterday I was 1 of 8 passengers that were passed through a WTMD after 1 person opted out of AIT. There were at least 2 people in that line that would have also opted out (my wife and me). Based on chatter waiting at the end of the baggage x-ray belt, there would have been others, but we'll never know. TSA's accounting in this manner misses the 3 out of 9 opt outs in this scenario, which for this sample is 30%, not "less than 3%" as TSA claims.

    I don't necessarily think this discrepancy is nefarious. It's just that, like everything else TSA, the managers have designed such a poor system, it actually does nothing.
    Lisa Simeone and nachtnebel like this.
  9. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    And now it's time to change it back, simple as that. I, for one, will not rest until any patdown performed by any TSO for any reason is a jailable criminal offense. If performed on a child, it's instant lifetime sex-offender registration as a child molester. Then it won't matter what cancertron strip-searchers show because people aren't getting touched either way (unless it's by a sworn LEO operating under probable cause and with proper training on how to frisk people for weapons). Bonus points for there being zero legal means of deterring people from opting out. Opt out now, get a gropedown. Opt out after We The People get gropedowns outlawed, go through a WTMD and maybe get wanded. Any worse and the TSO goes to jail.

    If this results in lost lives, then oh well. That is the cost of liberty sometimes.

    Screw 9/11. I don't care about 9/11. 9/11 doesn't matter to me. It is meaningless. I'm sick and tired of the past 10 years of date-worship in this country. A couple of buildings fell, oh no. Much, much worse (expletive deleted) has happened to other countries and they got on just fine. The fact that all of this hysteria has gone on in response to 9/11 just goes to show how disgustingly arrogant America really is. Hey, that should be a word: Amerrogance.
  10. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Say what, :cupcake:? Would :pumpkin: be better?

    Bart, cupcakes & pumpkins are inseparable, and this digression is making me hungry.
  11. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Indeed it is! Here you have choices:

    "cupcake" or :cupcake:
    "pumpkin" or :pumpkin:

    We try to be accommodating here, :pumpkin:.
  12. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    This place is different, Bart. We tell it like it is. One of your co-workers couldn't take the heat, can you?

    What makes you so defensive? What doubts do you harbor about the TSA? Do you fear that if the people protest too much you'll be out of a job?
  13. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    It's a two-way street -- don't complain about :cupcake: & :pumpkin:.

    I would prefer that people avoid "snake" in 1:1 discourse, but unless it gets so heated that we need to let one or two folks chill overnight, we're not likely to do anything about it.
  14. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    Don't mean to be argumentative, but I didn't complain about his use of the terms, rather that his use of those terms doesn't engender respect.
  15. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    I was hopeful about ATR. It looks like, and we'll get confirmation during the rollout, that the machines are as the Germans called them, unusable, with 35% false positives. Can you imagine the outcry over this, with anything even remotely close to those percentages? The ATR will not survive it.

    Here's a proposal Bart: go back to WTMD, and have the ATR for secondary for cases where there are baggy clothing, perhaps even skirts, or the person is suspicious for some articulable reason, or that alarms the WTMD (artificial joints). confirmation via the ATR could then be reasonable grounds for a localized pat, and I mean pat. dispense with the sliding obscenity. If randomness gives you a hard-on like it does for Pistole, then have a mechanical randomizer flag every 1000th person for ATR as well, with the winner getting a free flight if they are invaded and found to have nothing on them.
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  16. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Bart can call me Cookie as long as he keeps his hands off mine.
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  17. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Per Lenin, the worse the better. This thing can't end until it reaches rock bottom. Every time a kid gets groped, a terrorist laughs somewhere.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  18. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I know enough about TSA to suit me.

    TSA is the organization that thinks it is ok to feel up little children for no reason, TSA is the organization that confiscates a toy plastic hammer from a man who has the mental capacity of a child, TSA is the organization that confiscated toy plastic swords from a child to only later play with them, TSA is the organization that required the removal of an adult diaper from an elderly woman who only wanted to go home to die, TSA is the organization that held a woman hostage for over an hour while a TSA TSM stood by idle only because she didn't want her expressed milk x-rayed. Of course this is just a small sampling of TSA incidents just never end but they show very well who TSA is.
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  19. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    As Shakespeare would put it:

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  20. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    I clearly understand what the Constitution is all about. If I thought for a second that TSA was contrary to the Constitution, I would do something more about it than whine about it over the internet like you're doing.

    I find your rhetoric and hyperbole somewhat boring. I look forward to future discussions. I really do. But what you have to understand about me is that I can't take your whining seriously because I don't think you have the faintest idea of what true oppression looks like. You've never looked into the eyes of someone who was really struggling for their own freedom. Taking off shoes? Having someone's gloved hands touch your body? C'mon, give me a break. You and people like you make me giggle.

    Yeah, there's plenty of room for improvement in TSA. And I'm the first to admit that there are a lot of internal policies I find frustrating. I think there are better ways to integrate the AIT into the screening process that would be less intrusive than it currently is, and I'm hoping that the new risk-based screening policy will do that. But I'm also a realist, so I'm kind of cynical when it comes to how quickly a giant bureaucracy can change direction.

    Fair enough, Pilgrim?

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