Discussion in 'What's On Your Mind?' started by nachtnebel, Nov 11, 2011.
20 minutes of Stacey Armato's videotape magically disappeared.
Please understand that some of us have been personally assaulted, molested and abused by your co-workers. So I hope you have some understanding and empathy about how it's difficult to be pleasant to someone who participates in that. However, Elizabeth has given some excellent reasons to do my best to tamp down my anger when posting about or to you.
That being said...I would still like to hear your response to me about my experience. Hey, you said you couldn't speak to what happened to Ruth Zimmerman et al because you didn't have direct knowledge of what happened to them. Well, here I am -- it's like you have Ruth Zimmerman here in front of you. Ask me anything, I'll tell you. And I assure you I will not lie, embellish, exaggerate. I wrote of this experience right after it happened, in the airport while waiting for my plane. I still have that write-up on my desktop, and can refer to it if any of the details get fuzzy.
So...what do you have to say about what happened to me?
Are we hearing crickets? I certainly hope not.
“At a time like this, scorching irony, not convincing argument, is needed. Oh had I the ability, and could reach the nation's ear, I would, pour out a fiery stream of biting ridicule, blasting reproach, withering sarcasm, and stern rebuke. For it is not light that is needed, but fire; it is not the gentle shower, but thunder. We need the storm, the whirlwind, and the earthquake. The feeling of the nation must be quickened; the conscience of the nation must be roused.”
-Frederick Douglass, 1852, Rochester, NY
As I mentioned earlier, I approach from an investigators point of view. I have an account of what happened to you, from you. I would love to believe you, as I think you are telling what happened from your point of view. That being said, consider this from my point of view.
If this were to come to court, what would I have? I do not doubt you, I have no reason to doubt you, but if it came to court (and most cases like this would have to be able to be proven in court before an organization will act conclusively on it for legal reasons), what do I have? I have what you say, and I have what someone else would say, and maybe some cctv of the event, are there witnesses? If so, then you move towards something you mentioned earlier - a preponderance of evidence. If not, it boils down to you (someone I do not know) saying this happened (and for the sake of argument) another person (or in your case persons) stating this did not happen the way you say it did. What exactly do you expect? I have empathy for you, and realize that the event was very traumatic for you, but I only have you saying that it happened, against two people saying that it happened differently. What would you like me to say? I believe you? I do, but I could not take what you have given me and convict someone in court (maybe I could, but it would be a tough sell and I would need one heck of a prosecuting attorney).
OMG Rugape, we're not IN a court. We're in a message forum, and you are representing the TSA. I am asking you, not as a prosecutor or lawyer or judge, but as a HUMAN BEING, what you have to say about what happened to me.
Do you do this in ALL situations? If a family member comes to you and says "listen to what happened to me today!" do you say "Well if this were to come to court I would require proof before I would be able to act conclusively, I have what you say but are there witnesses?"
I'm not going to put any witnesses on the stand here, Rugape. I'm telling you, one human to another, this is what happened to me. I'm sure there WAS some video of it, and if I was going to sue or attempt to press charges or whatever I would have made an attempt to obtain it (although after what happened to Stacy Armato's video, I don't expect I would have been very successful). But I'm not going that route.
What I am doing is asking YOU, as a representative of your agency, what you think about what happened to me? You say you do not doubt me, so...stand up and speak.
Proof vs. Preponderance: At this point, TSA would probably get creamed in court. Proof "beyond a reasonable doubt" only matters in criminals cases. Civil issues are decided based on "preponderance of the evidence". The obstacle has been getting these cases INTO court. Once there, winning them will be easy, especially with more and more people lining up saying that they, too, were strip-searched and assaulted.
You assume there will be more witnesses contradicting LeeAnne than supporting her, and you assume no video or other evidence is available. You also assume the witnesses contradicting LeeAnne are of equal or greater credibility.
There's a reason why the TSA has been so court-shy. Most TSA victims have video evidence. Some have had audio evidence. Further, when there's been one victim there are usually many. Patterns of malfeasance are relatively easy for the victim's attorney to present.
I'm not kidding when I say that as an agency the TSA has lost all credibility. There's a preponderance of incontrovertible evidence that the pathological lying starts at the top and goes all the way to the bottom. This isn't "He said, she said." any more. That hasn't been the case for over a year.
Are they claiming they "lost" Stacy Armato's video? If so -> PATHETIC!
Yep. In a civil court they'd be toast.
As we debate J. Pistole is tap dancing in front of our congresspersons, who at this point now enjoy a 9% approval rating with their constituents. (Those poor bass turds have gotta know their jobs are on the line.) Anyhow,
Either Pistole will flatter them with "special access to SSI and Top Secret Intelligence" and scare them sillier than they already are with fanciful scenarios of terrifying toddlers and grenade smuggling grannies,
Or it's game over for the TSA's reign of terror.
I realize that it's really hard to achieve that 9% approval rating, and congress has had to party every single day for decades to the refrain, "Limbo a Little Lower Now" to achieve it, but I'm thinking it may finally be time for the TSA to reform.
By the way, I neglected to mention this but I actually do have audio evidence. I'd put my phone on video-record before I went through the checkpoint (I do that now every time I fly). The phone was not as close as I would have liked when it occurred, but you can clearly hear me saying "Stop it! STOP IT! YOU'RE HURTING ME!" in an extremely distressed voice.
I'm not sure how to upload the recording, but I have it.
So??? (Are we still hearing crickets...?)
leeanne -- what format is the file in? and how big is the file?
If you've got audio then it can be cleaned up to reveal every little sound. Good stuff.
Okay now you're talking tech-weenie stuff. Not a clue. It's a video recording on my cellphone - the phone was in the bin sitting on the table as I was being molested, so there's nothing to see, but you can hear various things, including my painful cry. I kinda forgot about it - it was back in March. I'll see if I can figure out what I can do with it.
Munch, munch. I do so love popcorn washed down with grape soda. This is special. I may need a beer.
anyone got a tooth pick i have this dang feather stuck in my teeth
Yes he is part of the Blog Team. He's also shared enough personal info over the years in various places that I'm certain I could to his airport, ask around, and locate him fairly quickly (assuming he's not too occupied looking at "microexpressions" ). Given that, it's should be no surprise that he would not make a statement that would draw the ire of anybody in TSA management.
Do you know if they will have an avenue where the traveling public could make issues known to them?
I'm probably one of the harshest critics of all things TSA.. Sometimes that carries over to individuals but from my perspective TSA is corrupt and severely damages the United States. To me that means the people working for TSA are possibly corrupt also. Even honest people trying to do a good job have to turn a blind eye from what is really going on if they are going to maintain some sort of personal respectability, they do have to get up each day and go do it again. This line of thought goes back to my comparison of a boot guard to a camp commander. Even the guard could see what was happening yet did nothing to remove themselves from the situation. In the case of TSA employees they each have the choice and ability to do something else and can do so without any risk as the guard mentioned before would have faced. I would expect each of them to avail themselves of that opportunity or they agree with what TSA is doing.
Can you provide the model of phone you're using? From that I can look up the specs and figure out what format it records with. If you have a video file it's not hard to demux it and separate out the audio into an indpendent file. A bit of work in Audacity and it can be cleaned & sharpened up so that maybe some more verbal interaction can be made out.
Removing white noise from audio isn't always easy (I still have nightmares about trying to clean up my mom's video footage of her vacation with her husband - the wind noise was horrendous) but it can be done with enough effort.
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