Boston Marathon Bombed

Discussion in 'What's On Your Mind?' started by Caradoc, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    None of those folks on the ground with guns pointed at them look anything like the culprit, do they? This is a pure power play. well, folks, it has happened here. welcome to the banana republic.
    Doober, KrazyKat and Elizabeth Conley like this.
  2. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    The alternative media has been buzzing about an extensively well-photographed group of government employees/contractors running around the Boston Marathon wearing black jackets and tan trousers, with black backpacks on. They had a very expensive looking communications and control truck and operated so openly that the subsequent secrecy is laughable. What those clowns were up to, no one knows for sure. What is certain is that equipping and deploying this bunch was expensive, and did not prevent the terrorist attack. Of course there are already conspiracy theories that the two perpetrators were manipulated by the FBI, but I'm not going to believe that without evidence. The FBI has done such things before, but I would think their subsequent exposure would have cured them of such asshattery by now. I'm pretty sure the government's role in this bombing is confined to squandering public funds and making a nuisance of themselves.“contractors”-at-boston-marathon-stood-near-bomb-left-before-detonation.html

    Locking down Boston and abusing its citizens didn't corral the terrorists or capture them. Citizens turned the terrorists in.

    Treating citizens better would go a long way toward preventing terrorist events and capturing criminals. It's less expensive than the jack-booted government goon approach and it works better.

    I wonder if our goobermint will ever figure this out.
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  3. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

  4. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

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  5. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Talk about Thousands Standing Around, (or riding shotgun on the MRAP). A lot of the coordination was probably just to not run into one another.
    And the citizen only went out to check the boat after the 'curfew' was lifted at 6pm.
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  6. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    On Thursday, before the pictures were released, a commentator suggested that the FBI probably already had names and that releasing pictures might not be a particularly good idea. Methinks he was right.

    Individuals who knew them from growing up didn't recognize them from the pictures or dismissed the idea that, especially with the younger one, the person they saw was a person they knew. It must be a similarity.

    Releasing the photos just made them run and become outlaws, causing even more death, injury and terror. There are those who will say that they were planning on doing more damage and, therefore, this manhunt was justifiable. I happen to not think so.

    Several reports, including from the parents, said that these two had been visited by the FBI at least 5 times and the family knew the FBI was "watching" their electronic activity. That pretty much jibes with the statement from the commentator mentioned above.

    Good old Peter King was asked in an interview if he'd ever heard of activity by Chechnyan groups here in the "homeland." He said no, it had never been mentioned to him as chair of the House Homeland Security Committee.

    Strange, the FBI visits this family several times and yet King has never heard of any concern about Chechnyans. Something stinks.

    And in all of this, the poor people in West, TX, who are suffering every bit as much and probably more than the people in Boston, have been all but forgotten.
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  7. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    Highlight: that was my exact thought also last night.

    In the days to come, I am certain that we will hear of mass chaos in communications between and among all the divergent groups.

    I fear this is going to lead to even more cameras in the streets (cameras don't prevent crime), more PD clamoring for more and larger tanks, and on and on and on and on.

    Another sad day for this country - but not for the reason most people think.
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  8. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    There's been some reporting that the Powers That Be some how wangled an "exception" to the suspect's Miranda rights.

    And so it begins.

    A Justice Department official says the Boston Marathon bombing suspect will not be read his Miranda rights because the government is invoking a public safety exception.

    That means that there are no "Miranda rights." "Rights" do not have exceptions.
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  9. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    I saw that earlier last night on my 'droid but was too tired lated to go find the quote.

    They're claiming "exigent circumstances" to question the subject w/o Mirandizing him. I would take "exigent" to suggest an emergency that requires you to get on with the questioning immediately, e.g. to find explosives or other accomplices about to carry out attacks..

    The subject was hauled off in an ambulance, so apparently they plan to defer the questioning. If they do that withing Mirandizing him, I fear they've badly bungled their chances of a successful prosecution.
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  10. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    From where I sit, it looks like there was no intention of ever "prosecuting" him. He'll be shipped off to Camp X-Ray for his "indefinite detention" as prescribed by the NDAA, and even less lip service will be paid to outdated nonsense like the First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth Amendments.
  11. Monica47

    Monica47 Original Member

    This is from Lindsey Graham's Twitter feed:

    Lindsey Graham@GrahamBlog
    Under the Law of War we can hold #Boston suspect as a potential enemy combatant not entitled to Miranda warnings or appointment of counsel.
    Retweeted by Phil Mocek
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  12. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Complete nonsense. It is not a "law of war" in play here; it is the very old law of pure, unrestrained Power. They want to use whatever means they have to extract whatever they can from him before they finish him.

    This man is accused of a criminal act, for which death is a penalty, under federal statutes. If the explicit Constitutional protections provided to such persons are not respected for him, they are destroyed for us all.
  13. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I think there is a world of difference between roasting and other types of torture and waterboarding. Waterboarding borders on a form of torture but I don't think it crosses that line. Finding out what this guy knows is important to determine if it was a two person cell or a larger network. Was it just two angry people are a group with larger goals? If he can be directly tied to the bombing then I think that evidence can stand on its one. Questions regarding a network or larger cell is a seperate issue and isn't really necessary to prosecute the guy for the bombing.

    I do think they should Mirandaize the guy when he is awake and alert, ask no questions until that time, and let things take there course.
  14. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    I think Caradoc said something with respect to rabid dogs that came to mind when I read the latest from Lindsey "Foamer" Graham.
  15. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Not that it isn't important for lots of reasons, but Miranda discussion gives folks-- who might be inclined to be concerned, i.e. liberals-- something else to focus on rather than the impromptu martial law we just witnessed.
  16. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Good discussion in the New York Times:

    Anthony Romero, the executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union, said it would be acceptable for the Federal Bureau of Investigation to ask the suspect, Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, 19, a naturalized American citizen, about “imminent” threats, like whether other bombs are hidden around Boston. But he said that once the F.B.I. gets into broader questioning, it must not “cut corners.”

    Mr. Tsarnaev remained hospitalized on Saturday for treatment of injuries sustained when he was captured by the police on Friday night, and it was not clear whether he had been questioned.

    “The public safety exception to Miranda should be a narrow and limited one, and it would be wholly inappropriate and unconstitutional to use it to create the case against the suspect,” Mr. Romero said. “The public safety exception would be meaningless if interrogations are given an open-ended time horizon.”

    :td: to these bozos:

    At the other end of the spectrum, some conservatives have called for treating terrorism-related cases — even those arising on American soil or involving citizens — as a military matter, holding a suspect indefinitely as an “enemy combatant” without a criminal defendants’ rights. Two Republican senators, John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, called for holding Mr. Tsarnaev under the laws of war, interrogating him without any Miranda warning or defense lawyer.

    “Our goal at this critical juncture should be to gather intelligence and protect our nation from further attacks,” they said. “We remain under threat from radical Islam and we hope the Obama administration will seriously consider the enemy combatant option.”

    The article also has a good discussion of the exception as applied in the casue of the underwear bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmuttalab, who confessed to a nurse and was questioned by the FBI for 50 minutes before he went into surgery. He was Mirandized after surgery. The trial judge refused to suppress that evidence, but note that the questioning was immediate.

    We have a good track record of prosecuting these cases, they just need to get on with it properly.

    Waterboarding is considered a war crime. We weren't too happy about it when the Japs did it to us.

    However, despite the claims by some on the loony left (it makes for a good sound bite when you're ranting about "W"), no Japanese were actually executed for waterboarding. They were hanged for far more serious crimes.

    Did somebody mention a rack? :D
    KrazyKat likes this.
  17. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    On a lighter note, I see that the TSA blog wasn't updated yesterday with the weekly summation of dangerous weapons. Perhaps Bob is writing a thread about all that the TSA did to contribute to yesterday's events.
  18. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Has their alert gone down, I wonder?
  19. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    methinks a disconnect here--mirandize a guy and then waterboard him for more info, presumably even after he's asked for a lawyer, effectively stripping the Miranda of any effect whatsoever.

    Torture is the use of pain, be it physical or psychological, to force someone to do or say say things you want them to say or do. Waterboarding, sleep deprivation, contorting the body in painful positions are all undoubtedly and beyond question torture, and have been classified as such by the US before it starting using these things itself.

    Now, they are attempting to assert that if it does not kill you or leave lasting marks (rubber hoses anyone), or lasting physical damage, it is not torture.

    They can get what they want by cutting this guy a deal, life imprisonment vs death, conjugal visiting rights, or whatever. That is the only ethical and lawful way to proceed here without causing more damage to our society.
  20. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    At least one funny story has come out of all of this:

    With that many cops on the streets, there wasn't a whelk's chance in a supernova that Dunkin Donuts would close...

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