Bruce Schneier & Kip Hawley on Firedog Lake -- now

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Sunny Goth, May 20, 2012.

  1. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

  2. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Interesting discussion going on over there...

    From Kip Hawley:


    Kip Hawley May 20th, 2012 at 3:11 pm
    65
    In response to RevBev @ 59
    My WSJ article should tell you that I think that we can go a long ways in backing off intrusions on the public for security. I believe the threat is very real and we need to get the public back in support of smart security. The intrusive pat-down should stop now.
     
    Lisa Simeone and Fisher1949 like this.
  3. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    That *is* interesting. The next administration *may* be of like mind. Kip for next TSA administrator! (not). But at least this is a part of the public debate now, whether the hand in the crotch is necessary, with an ex-TSA head on record saying it is NOT necessary. F*k you, John Pistole!
     
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  4. RB

    RB Founding Member

    First thing that needs to happen is to oust Pissy.
     
  5. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    Not oust, more like tried for treason, and crimes against humanity/constitution
     
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  6. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    In the good old days of the American Revolution, traitors were punished by drawing & quartering.

    In Pissy's case, I'd settle for seeing him escorted to the border and then forced, at gunpoint, to walk across it and see the gate slammed shut behind him. With hundreds of cameras from every major and minor news outlet in the nation watching.

    Knowing, and knowing that he also knows, that he will never be allowed to set foot in this country again would be satisfaction enough for me.
     
  7. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    That was mostly English, in England. Drawing and quartering was rarely done in North America.

    However, they were very considerate those Brits. Out of considerations of modesty a female traitor was burned at the stake so as not to display her pudenda to the throng as she was torn asunder. Those Brits think through everything, don't they?

    So we'll need some chains & a team of horses for Pissy, an 8-10' post & a few faggots of wood for Nappy. :D

    Marshmellow roast to follow. :)
     
  8. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Why I'm so pessimistic. Bruce Schneier, on May 20, 2012, at 3:12 pm, confirming my hunch:

    "Terrorism is a risk, but it is hardly existential. That being said, I think it will take another generation to undo the security excesses of the current one."
     
  9. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    While I might, at first, be excited to hear that from Hawley, what it means to someone like him is that the pat-down option should go away. If people can only go through NoS, then there is no need for a pat-down and the bad press stops.

    Remember, this circus is first and foremost Hawley's. He created the environment where it was all about the big show - style over substance, actual security and safety be damned. He's the one going on and on about how the public needs to stop pushing back so much against TSA.

    How do you accomplish that to someone like Kip? You remove the negative press.

    The solution to someone like him (and remember, I interfaced daily with colleagues who had to talk to his doughy, stupid face regularly and implement, explain, and approve these asinine procedures, and those of his underlings) is to make a grand security show. Everyone goes through the NoS. No post-scan resolution pat-downs other than very targeted, very brief ones. Metal detectors and opt outs go away. No bad press, no intrusive pat-downs. Voila! Problem solved.
     
  10. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    He called Sommer Gentry. He found her email first -- easy enough, since she's a tenured professor at the Naval Academy -- and got in touch with her. She gave him her phone number and he called her. He's been keeping tabs on what she writes (and he keeps tabs on this site and on TSA News). She said she had a good conversation with him. I'm still skeptical of the guy.
     
  11. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Me too.

    There's an agenda here, I don't know what it is, but it's not about selling books.
     
    barbell likes this.
  12. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    This is what I don't understand: how can he not see that this is the monster he created? He created this anything goes, berate, belittle, yell environment. It's his baby. Is he really this clueless?

    Sure, John Pistole decided that he needed to be sticking his hands in everybody's pants, but he couldn't have done that if Kip had not created this monster. How does Kip live with that knowledge?
     
  13. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    Romney's Homeland Security advisor is Chertoff, Kip's old boss. Go ahead and connect those dots.
     
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  14. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Let's remember that it was Kippie who created a TSA so bad, that Pissy could finish the job of making it really, really, bad. It's usually a lot harder to lay the groundwork than to finish a script. When it comes to who's responsible for the current debacle, I would rank Kippy as high as, if not higher than, Pissy.

    His hindsight is so refreshing. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Barbell basically beat me to that point by two minutes.

    Great minds think alike. :D
     
    barbell likes this.
  16. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Interesting that that's your take on what he said. I don't think TSA can require a NoS only option - at least not yet. The opt-out option is what has been saving the NoS program, that's why the signage issue is so important.

    Putting myself in his shoes.....

    The chorus against the TSA is only getting louder, and we are winning 'one grope at a time'. Over time we will probably win on that issue.

    So what do you do if you're Kip Hawley? You back off a little, or maybe a lot, in the short term while you plan your next move - and the next move may be to force NoS on us with no opt-out. People go through the checkpoints and don't get forced into the scanners and they aren't sexually assaulted. They begin to think things are getting 'back to normal'. Then you lower the boom.

    The reason why I think this is because this is what happened back in 2004. Remember the child molestations and the breast grabs? There was outrage -- and then it stopped for a few years. The introduction of the NoS ratcheted everything back up again.

    Maybe he's angling for that long term, but I don't see it happening right now. EPIC will file suit - again - and probably get an expedited hearing. Some large number of doctor's groups will join in or file their own suits over the potential health issues. It will be very public and make the public nervous (over the health issue if not the privacy issue).

    Nope, this wouldn't be a smart move on his part - yet.
     
  17. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Dots have been connected. ;)
     
  18. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    I can't imagine he'd actually want back in, though. Not at this stage of the game.

    Lucrative "consulting" job with Romney/Chertoff, sure. But to actively seek reinstatement in the most reviled agency in the US government? You'd have to be brainde...oh. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
     
    DeafBlonde, Caradoc and Sunny Goth like this.
  19. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    That has never stopped Kip Hawley. Trust me on that one.
     
  20. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Ha! I believe you. :)
     

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