Bruce Schneier on terror attacks post 9/11

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Mike, Aug 26, 2011.

  1. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Bruce Schneier on terror attacks post 9/11: Terrorism in the U.S. Since 9/11

    Interesting article, $62.5 billion expended per life saved, the only successful attacks in the U.S. have utilized guns rather than bombs.
     
  2. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    I don't have anything personally against Bruce Schneier; however, he thrives on these claims of ineffective security because he's got a vested interest. I'm sure he's knowledgeable about security; but he can't sell books or make TV guest appearances if he were to ever agree that security IS working. His article is laced with hyperbole right off the bat, and that kills whatever claims he may have about taking an objective look at security.

    There are some valid criticisms, and I'll be the first to acknowledge that TSA could certainly improve in several areas. I'd like to read real criticisms rather than one from a guy who makes his money off of books that criticize security. He comes across as a conspiracy theorist.
     
  3. VH-RMD

    VH-RMD Original Member

    unlike your claims of effective security due to your vested interest? :rolleyes:
     
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  4. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    I'm not the guy on the internet claiming to be the security guru. Schneier even has that on his web site. You make the call, pilgrim.
     
  5. VH-RMD

    VH-RMD Original Member

    I know who I believe has credibility...
     
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  6. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    Good for you.

    I don't dispute Schneier's expertise. Never did. I question his motives. Always have since he first popped up on the scene.
     
  7. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    Everyone has a motive. I question those who say they don't.
     
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  8. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Fact is, there are no credentials for being a "security expert." The security experts didn't prevent 9/11. What is necessary to be a "security expert" is the ability to draw the line as to where on the spectrum the balance should be struck. Absolute security would be to ground all civilian aircraft permanently. People don't want this, so we have some lesser degree of security as a trade-off. Of course, we do this all the time in life. For example, the way to prevent automobile accident deaths would be to abolish all automobiles. But we don't want to do that, so we compromise with seat belts, educational campaigns, crash-testing, etc.

    The Constitution does provide a limit to how far these choices can be made. For example, most murders are committed in private, but without probable cause and a warrant, a residence may not be searched for evidence of that murder.

    The problem with TSA is fundamentally that People's Commissar Pistole has arrogated to himself, with the consent of a somnolent Congress, the right to make the important decision of where to draw the line. Certain people, including myself, believe that he overstepped the Constitutional line in so doing.
    My point is really anyone can be a security expert just by some clear thought, and indeed, to paraphrase Clemenceau, security is too important to leave it to the security experts.
     
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  9. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    It's definitely too important to be entrusted to a collective of dimwits hired from ads on pizza boxes supported by thieves and child molesters - as the TSA does.
     
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  10. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    That's fair.
     
  11. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    You know, this piece of rhetoric is cute. Probably a big hit on the playground. I'd like to see the pizza box ad you claim exists. I'd also like you to do some research and compare the hiring requirements for government service regardless of agency.

    As for thieves and perverts, well, I thought you were talking about US Army Special Operations Forces qualifications. But even those recruitments aren't on pizza boxes. :cupcake:
     
  12. OnTheAsile

    OnTheAsile Original Member

    Washington Post: TSA using pizza boxes to recruit new workers
    The boxed ad campaign was developed last year in an effort to reach a broader applicant pool, according to TSA spokesman Greg Soule.
    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/07/tsa_using_pizza_boxes_to_recru.html
    http://www.worldmate.com/travelog/2010/07/14/tsa-seeks-the-best-candidates…via-pizza-box-ads/

    .
     
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  13. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    During my previous career, there was always a conflict between the security experts and operations folks. The security weenies I worked with were conditioned to risk avoidance. It took about 10 years or so to drag them into the 21st century and the idea of risk management. I will admit that we operators had a cavalier attitude towards security, and that didn't exactly enhance the working relationship between operator and security manager. I don't know where Schneier falls. He doesn't exactly commit himself to any positions; he just knows how to say that what we have doesn't work. Of course, from a purely financial perspective, that's the catch: if you're interested in how to do it "right," then you have to agree to purchase his product. After all, that's how he makes his living.

    Administrator Pistole is a career FBI professional. He probably understands more about the Constitution than a room full of lawyers. (You do know that Mr. Pistole is a lawyer, right?) He had to have this understanding because he had to make decisions for the FBI that impacted on the constitutional rights of Americans and "US Persons." He's not a security weenie. He's a law enforcement subject matter expert. I usually have a degree of hesitation when it comes to law enforcement types being put in charge of agencies like TSA. However, what distinguishes Mr. Pistole from others is his extensive background in counterterrorism. I think even Schneier has to acknowledge that Mr. Pistole's expertise in this arena is unmatched. But I don't trust Schneier to have the integrity to make such an admission.

    You can perpetuate your silly characterizations of John Pistole as a commissar. It has the net effect of sticking your tongue out and saying "nanny nanny boo-boo." I believe that he is the right person for the job. I base that on my experience as a career Army intelligence officer. (For the record, intelligence operations and security are not synonymous,)
     
  14. Bart

    Bart Original Member

  15. OnTheAsile

    OnTheAsile Original Member

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  16. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    A friend in D.C. sent me a picture of the gas pump ad a while back but I can't find it -- probably on my old cell phone. I'm asking her to re-send it.

    It's definitely real.
     
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  17. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    So let us have your thoughts on the quality of person that would be found via a pizza box or a gas station advertisement.
     
  18. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    LOL. OK. So let me get this straight, are you saying that ALL TSOs found out about the job on a pizza box? You honestly believe that a significant number of TSOs found out about TSA through a gas station ad?
     
  20. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    Where
    Where in heaven's name do you get that from? Is it just a way of not addressing the question I asked?
     
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