Coming this fall, if you're poor & not a FF, You Lose

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Lisa Simeone, Jul 14, 2011.

  1. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

  2. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    From the release:

    So, basically, you might go through different screening, but if some TSA lackey decides to randomly screen you, you still get screened.




    Oh, and still unConstitutional. ALL people are created equal, which means ALL people are innocent until proven guilty. Why is this concept so difficult for these idiots to understand?
  3. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    barbell, exactly.

    But they're playing Divide-and-Conquer. And the beneficiaries of this unethical system will gladly go along with it. The rich, the connected, the frequent flyers. Those who can't afford all the bells and whistles or who just plain rarely fly will, of course, be segregated for abuse.

    And, again as I've said till I'm blue in the face, none of this will obviate harassment if a TSA agent simply feels like dishing it out. If you're rich, connected, iris-scanned, fingerprinted, voice-recognized, micro-chipped, whatever, you can still be yanked aside for a grope or anything else our overlords deem appropriate.

    This is a system doomed to failure, but all they do is double-down on their oppression.

    (Then again, I can't be surprised. We as a society have tolerated the caging of the poor for smoking the wrong substance or becoming addicted to the wrong drugs, while the well-connected and the "right" people get off. Everything we visit on the weakest among us will, eventually, be visited upon ourselves. Again, again, again: Martin Niemöller.)
    barbell likes this.
  4. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Much ado about nothing, just some mumbo jumbo to assuage the masses while they muddle on:

  5. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    Lisa, I couldn't agree more.

    Though, using a divide-and-conquer method may work to our advantage as it has some unintended consequences.

    First, let's consider that the people running around TSA HQ ain't all that bright to begin with. Like every single other program they've implemented, I can guarantee you, without even looking at it, that it is flawed in it's development, rationale, and implementation.

    Second, consider that most people are "OK" with current procedures as they perceived that everyone is going through them. Perusing the comments on the MSNBC article about the BNA incident, the pro-TSA arguments, which are noticeably in the minority, all have some flavor of, "if these people would just go through the scanners like everyone else we wouldn't have these problems!" There's a tone of exasperation that people are somehow trying to "circumvent" security. In one smart move the TSA has termed this "opting out", as if people opposed to the scanners somehow think they shouldn't be screened. Nonsense.

    So you take that prevailing attitude, create a divide-and-conquer situation, the unwashed masses most certainly WILL start bucking that system. The TSA has made an unmitigated mess of airport security, and have almost daily chipped away at their own support and credibility. I saw let's give them enough rope and let them hang themselves.
  6. mikemey

    mikemey Original Member

    Stupid doesn't begin to describe this.

    Class warfare starts to.
    KrazyKat and barbell like this.
  7. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    How is it that American and Delta get favored? Doesn't this give them a government sponsored advantage over other airlines? Seems like a potential lawsuit to me.
  8. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    A couple of things come to mind, Fisher1949.

    It is widely known in some circles that AA and DL love them some TSA. Other airlines are ambivalent, and still others are outright hostile. Those that are hostile are punished with slower security lines, a greater number of "incidents", and generally less-than-cooperative attitudes from both sides. Frankly, I don't blame TSA for implementing a program with someone they work better with. Of course, they created the hostile environment in the first place.

    I imagine the airports chosen also have a "favored" FSD.

    These airports, in my experience, also have a more streamlined architecture, which allows for separate lines. It doesn't stop TSA from creating havoc and chaos in those environments, but the physical plant is more conducive to such schema already.

    I'm still not convinced that this program is nothing more than lipstick to put on a pig.
  9. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    As I commented in some of the articles, we've been hearing this since 2004 and still waiting. Just like the privacy software that they promised in 2008 and Pistole said we'd have this year....still waiting there too.

    The lying at TSA has become pathological, I honestly can't recall a truthful statement from anyone there. I'm sure it has happened, but probably by accident.
  10. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    Don't forget that cargo isn't screened, and that explosives detection is almost a decade behind.
  11. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Delta has always sucked up to TSA & Homeland Security. Delta help develop & test CAPPS 2 over the protests & boycott of a number of its customers. Their current CEO (Richard Anderson) is on record as stating that TSA does a good job.

    Don't know what American's excuse is ....
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  12. LeapingFrogs

    LeapingFrogs Original Member

    First of all... Flight Attendants STILL get groped and scanned dont they? So..... if they're getting porn scanned and grabbed when they opt out... what make ANYONE think anything will change at all? I mean... HELLO if Flight Attendants aren't "trusted" why does anyone else think they would enjoy privledges above and beyond what a highly trained airline employee received?

    Did I miss something? FA's are still getting gate raped aren't they?
  13. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    I know pilots raised enough of a stink that they aren't getting abused anymore. I thought flight attendants were also getting their treatment changed. Can't remember if that change has gone through yet or not.

    Very enlightening discussion -- I had no idea that any of the airlines approved of the TSA. Their own employees have been abused. Why do Delta and AA suck up to this agency? What are they getting out of it? Promises that their employees won't be harassed or assaulted as much as everyone else?
  14. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    No, FAs are neither scoped nor groped. In fact, at some airports (ATL and DFW come to mind) they skip screening entirely. They are driven onto the tarmac by the busload. That's how they manage to get things like guns onto planes.

    And Lisa, read my previous post on the matter. It's not the employees so much that they care about, it's the inconvenience and the wrenches that TSA purposefully throws into an already chaotic and inefficient system. An airline that has an adversarial relationship with TSA will be punished in ways that directly affect its bottom line. For instance, slow processing lines cause misconnects, and the airline then must eat the cost of reaccommodation. Furthermore, a particularly large hub may be plagued with an overzealous FSD.

    For instance, pretend you're the FSD at PHL and you have some sort of ax to grind. Well, the physical plant at PHL ain't all that great to begin with, so you could, in theory, cause monumental backups in the screening process and blame it on the physical plant, forcing the primary tenant airline to invest millions in the screening infrastructure. In the meantime that tenant has raked up literally millions in lost baggage fees, lost manhours for processing bags, and the customer perception of literally thousands of bags lining the walls on its checkin desks because, well gosh, you just can't process them all that fast. And don't mistake CLT airport director Jerry Orr's very public disdain for TSA. And if you go to PHX T4 you can very easily observe the security lines for Checkpoint D, where the primary tenant there is ambivalent towards TSA, move faster than those at Checkpoint A with nearly double the infrastructure of screening lanes and more seasoned travelers, with a primary tenant that also happens to share large hubs in PHL and CLT.

    You're aware of retaliatory screening, no? It's meted out on a grand scale when it suits TSAs needs, and in a way to keep airlines themselves compliant and from complaining too much and too publicly about TSA. Bullies use it to great advantage to further their own goals. It is no accident that other airlines and hubs were excluded from this process. I wouldn't be surprised if their primary hubs were among the last to see full implementation once the program is deemed a "success".
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  15. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    More details have emerged. Sorry, can't share the source. You can either trust me on it, or disregard. Choice is yours...

    So, it sounds to me as if some FF will be included (no idea on the criteria just yet), and all GE, SENTRI, and NEXUS. Of course, they'd have to start recognizing these IDs. :oops:

    From this tiny group, selected (meaning some, not all of a group already vetted) will receive expedited screening. I can imagine from public statements this level of screening allows one to leave on shoes and a hat. BFD.

    Furthermore, selection is based on flight segment. Presumably, if you share a flight with someone on the NFL, you'll be excluded on that segment, even if you would have otherwise been eligible. Which means, to me, that people on the NFL should do just that, not fly. Of course, then TSA would have to justify this bizarre and unConstitutional list, and they aren't going to do that. It is also prima facie evidence that the NFL is just one, big farce. Scratch that, it is prima facie evidence that TSA is one, outrageous farce.

    So, sounds like those eligible for expedited screening will be an insignificant fraction of the flying population, let's be generous and say, oh 3%. We have already been told by TSA that we should just calm down already because "only 3%" receive "pat downs", and that 25,000 security breaches represents "only 1%" of screening operations and is therefore of no concern.

    OK, TSA, your stupid idea is still stupid. Come up with something better.
    Lisa Simeone and mikemey like this.
  16. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    The bolded, italicized and underscored phrase caught my attention. Perhaps this is what someone experienced when pulled aside at the bottom of an escalator before even TDC. I forget what kind of a "screening" he had to undergo, hand swab?
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  17. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

  18. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    CelticWhisper, though I registered at Slashdot and commented, I confess I have no idea how to navigate the place. It looks like a zillion threads all over the map -- one could spend hours there -- talk about falling down the rabbit hole. And what's with the rating system? How do you rate something "insightful" or "funny" or all the other stuff over there? Or is that only the purview of the moderators? Are there moderators? I'm lost.
  19. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    Slashdot has a moderation system that is, as far as I've seen in my internet travels, unique.

    You register and log in. The main page reads a lot like a linear newspaper - you click on a topic to bring up the full summary and discussion. As you scroll down the discussion page, you can reply to a post or make a new post.

    Moderation comes with karma. As you make posts that are moderated up Insightful/Interesting/etc. your karma increase and you get mod points. It starts out 5 at a time, then 10, and so on. I currently get mod points in batches of 15. You'll know when you can moderate as posts will have drop-down menus at the bottom allowing you to moderate that post how you wish. You cannot post and moderate in the same discussion - moderation becomes unavailable once you've posted, and posting revokes any moderation you've done in that thread. This is to prevent abuses such as modding down anyone who replies and disagrees.
  20. the_happiness_store

    the_happiness_store Original Member

    We all know that they really meant guilty until proven innocent. Get your head around that.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.

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