Constitution 101

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Cartoon Peril, Aug 14, 2011.

  1. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    I work at an airport.
  2. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Does not change the fact that TSA carried out the Savannah train incident.
    AngryMiller likes this.
  3. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Also I believe VIPR squads are staffed primarily by highly trained security professionals from the local airports, complemented by some air marshals to reinforce the intimidation factor and some muscle from immigration to ensure that those 16-year-old girls on their way to school end the day in Tijuana.
    AngryMiller likes this.
  4. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    I don't work at headquarters. I don't develop policy. I'm not a BDO. I've given you my personal opinion about a program I have nothing to do with. I don't know what more you want from me.
  5. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I was asking about the new interrogations that tsa has started. This practice is not a search so does not conform to an administrative search and violates indvidual civil rights. Justification by tsa employees tells me there are no limits.
    AngryMiller likes this.
  6. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    You got me on that one. If this is something new, then I am unaware of it. I don't doubt you; I'm just saying that I am not aware of this program. Could be that it's being used at certain airports as a test of concept or it could be that this is a new twist to BDO VooDoo. I am not a BDO, so I don't know what changes or non-changes occur.

    I've hinted on this, so I'll be a little more blunt: within the workforce, BDOs distance themselves from the regular TSOs. I don't know if this is true at all airports, but it certainly is true at mine. That's what I meant by "deep, deep, deep SSI" or as I irreverently call it, SSSSI (SuperDooper Secret SSI). Some BDOs think they're special because they have security clearances. They can have it. I used to maintain one of the highest government security clearances for over 20 years; it's a pain in the (expletive deleted). Besides, I know the real scoop as far as how the FBI and other US government alphabet agencies regard these cute little DHS security clearances. No thanks. Been there, done that, got the souvenir pen.

    Hope this answers your question. I wasn't trying to be evasive; I just did not really understand what you were getting at.
    AngryMiller likes this.
  7. AngryMiller

    AngryMiller Original Member

    Ah hah the question was answered. I don't know is a good answer too.:)
  8. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I'm surprised you have not heard of the new TSA program which will include interrogation of travelers.
  9. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    Don't be. The BDOs are pretty compartmentalized. TSA press releases don't equate to official policy. We receive bulletins that include instructions on implementation dates, training instructions, etc. I would not receive anything regarding BDOs. No one outside the BDO program would.
  10. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Just a little suggestion for folks to keep in mind: Bart is not on trial here, rather he's an equal in the conversation. If you've restated a question once and still don't get an answer, perhaps it's time to change the subject or approach it from a different vantage point?

    I wanted to butt in with this much earlier but when I'm on the road w/ my droid I can only handle pecking at so many keys one at at a time.
    barbell likes this.
  11. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    It sure seems to me to be one more expansion of the TSA's scope. Screening for WEI is reasonable--the how it is being done since last October is the sticking point, as nobody outside the TSA thinks the strip search and gropes to be reasonable procedures. Interrogating passengers is not per se screening for WEI, it is screening for intent, and that is beyond their charter. The potential for abuse, the imposition of yet more stress, fear, and uncertainty on innocent passengers, yet another possible trapdoor for someone to end up getting winkie wanked in the private hut make this new foray something that should only be done in extremis, definitely not standardized in every airport. Especially if you add the likelihood that it is ineffective if not completely useless to boot. We are not Israel, we don't have that quality of personnel and never will have, and besides our Constitution forbids what they do in that country.

    The TSA in coming up with invasive things like this that are recognized by everyone to be of limited or no use just demonstrates to everyone that they do not know what they are doing, and their flailing about is on public display.

    I have some sympathies with the Israeli approach. I suspect the results of this trial in Boston will show that the downsides are extensive and the results not worth it.
  12. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    TSA will never state that the results are not worth the interrogations. They can't and save face.
    barbell and Elizabeth Conley like this.
  13. RB

    RB Founding Member

    When the question is misunderstood I think restating is ok.

    Also on the road using phone so short answer.
  14. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    "Restating" repeatedly to the point of harassing someone is not ok.
  15. N965VJ

    N965VJ Original Member

    Everyone goes through the same screening without exception, including airline and TSA employees. X-ray of personal belongings, walk through / hand held metal detectors, Explosive Trace Detection / Explosive Trace Portal.
    AngryMiller likes this.
  16. RB

    RB Founding Member

    If directed at me I certainly don't think I was harassing Bart nor anyone else. I would hope people would speak up if they felt under pressure.
  17. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    Is there a limit when posting wirelessly? I tried to answer a couple posts with my wireless and thought I was suffering from fat-finger-itus.
    AngryMiller likes this.
  18. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    It's easy to get that impression when your thumb obscures the entire keyboard.
  19. AngryMiller

    AngryMiller Original Member

    Lol. Diminishing eyesight, overly large fingers + small keyboard = get a stylus if you want your posts to come out anywhere coherent.:)

    They make those things for kids, not us old fogeys.

    Sometimes there are issues when posting from cell phones. Not all cell phones like the internet so it may not have been you.
  20. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    I don't consider myself an old fogey (well, not physically yet anyway) but I am "gifted" with rather large hands (that Carlin routine about airport security and "what if you just had really big hands? Couldn't you strangle a flight attendant?" Yeah, he was talking about me.) and there are days I'm glad my N900 includes a stylus as a throwback to its pocket-PC predecessors. Doesn't help that the keys are about half the size of the N810's - that learning curve was rather painful.

    My brother's phone has a hardware keyboard but it's fingers-only. I will never understand how he can compose text like he does. Then again, he got the gangly-hands gene so maybe it all works out.

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