United States DC Rejects DHS's "Secure Communities"

Discussion in 'Border Controls, Customs and Immigration' started by Lisa Simeone, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member


    Newsletter from the ACLU.
     
  2. RB

    RB Founding Member

    The man was in the country illegally. He should be deported.
     
  3. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Agree that those here illegally should at least be deported, if not charged. However, the attempt to federalize local police is a terrible development. If the feds are going to undermine local state attempts to seal their borders (Arizona) then certainly they should not get much cooperation from state and local police.
     
  4. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    I have really mixed feelings about this. I agree - you shouldn't be living in the US illegally, and if you're caught, you should get deported.

    But.

    That first paragraph that Lisa quoted pretty much says it all. Not investigating the crime and instead investigating the person who reported the crime makes it less likely that others will report crimes. This has repercussions for everyone. I'm also sympathetic to the breaking up of families argument. It seems wholly better to me to try to get the illegal person into some kind of legal status (whatever that may be), rather than break up the family - especially if young children are involved.

    And then there's this:

    Alabama immigration: crops rot as workers vanish to avoid crackdown

    These don't seem to be jobs US citizens even want, even though we need someone to do it.

    I don't know what kinds of wages are being paid ....
     
  5. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Well a legal status would include being deported. The person reported a crime but at the same time had their own issues.

    Two things should have happened. Complainant taken into custody and held for a deportation hearing along with an investigation of the reported crime.

    As far as breaking up families I think blame for that has to fall squarely on the shoulders of the person in the country illegally.

    We have laws and immigration is one area of law. Why can we pick and choose which laws to enforce or not enforce? Who decides? Wouldn't the better thing be to change the law if they are unjust?

    Illegals are a drain on social services and do not pay proper taxes. Here in Dallas many school age children can't speak English. I truly doubt that the parent of those children are here legally in all cases.
     
  6. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    On the surface this sounds terrible ... but was this tomato farmer running a legitimate operation in the first place? He claimes to have 56 workers for up to 4 months a year. Were they passing the pre-hiring checks? Any issues crediting social security funds to valid SSNs? Was he even collecting/paying social security in the first place?
     
  7. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Some are in the country legally, marry and/or have kids, their children and even their spouses are citizens. When they lose their visa status, do you expect them just to vaporize overnight? Doesn't work that way.
     
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  8. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    I've known a lot of illegal aliens, and the bottom line is that they are here because the employers of this country can get them for one-third the cost and none of the hassles associated with domestic workers. No headaches from unions, worker's comp, etc, etc.

    In my view the people ARE here legally, according to the only law that seems to matter any more, which is the law of supply and demand.

    There are many very powerful interests which wish to maintain the system the way it is, because this has the effect of keeping labor prices down. And I certainly don't blame a child for having chosen the wrong parents. Right or wrong, we have now got 11 to 12 million undocumented persons in this country, and they cannot be deported without tremendous social disruption. It seems to me the smarter solution would be to enforce all the rules requiring good working conditions, proper tax withholding, and everything else associated with lawful employment, and then actually enforce the immigration rules, but on the employers.

    One has to remember that immigration enforcement is one of the points TSA claims as "victories" when it's trying to justify the BDO problem. This is run by the same rotten bunch at the top of DHS.
     
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  9. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    I don't know - the article doesn't go into all of that. It's certainly possible that all of it was done 'under the table'. If his workforce was mostly illegal immigrants than he likely wasn't paying social security. But of course that's the catch 22. You can't get a social security card if you're here illegally, unless you do so fraudulently. So what does the employer do if he wants to hire them? He doesn't pay social security.

    The issue of who is going to harvest crops is still an issue. And do people realize that if you deport all (or most) of the illegal people in the country, food prices are going to go up. I don't think a lot of people have made that connection. And then, of course, we need to talk about fair wages. :)
     
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  10. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Yes.

    And yes again.
     
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  11. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Part of the problem is the definition of "skilled labor". People think that "skilled labor" is a machinist or something like that. I think however that being able to pick fruit, such as tomatoes, on a production level, day after day, to have the strength and the endurance to do that, that's a degree of skill too, and I think that if we started paying what it was worth, these folks would earn $40/hour.

    Of course the price of food would go up, but then the value of a person's labor would be fairly compensated also, as this would drive all wages up. And, if people were being paid a fair wage for labor, you'd see all this talk about American's not being willing to do the work fade away.

    So I think that in this situation, like TSA, we are seeing the government maintain the status quo for the benefit of a very few people (only fools believe that TSA is actually protecting passengers with their groping, etc.), at the expense of a very much large number of other people.
     
  12. RB

    RB Founding Member

    No I expect them to leave the country as they are legally required to do. Why should they be excused for not complying with the law?
     
  13. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    I agree in principle, but the reality is that this doesn't happen, and our country could not tolerate a situation where we deported 11 or 12 million people, nor would we want to see the level of the police state that it would take to make that happen.
     
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  14. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    For the simple reason that they often don't have have the resources to relocate themselves and their families overseas. Your expectation is unrealistic and unachievable.
     
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  15. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Except it looks like we're just about there now. HUD and banks are happy to re-selling our foreclosed on homes to families of, at best, mixed legal status. Maybe we can set up dwellings in empty Chinese shipping containers for formerly middle class, home-owning American families, who had the bad judgment to become unemployed. If there are any "sanctuary cities" for such unemployed people, do let me know.

    This is one of those problems that could be figured out if anyone cared to. Obviously it is working for those who benefit, including non-profits that would have no mission if the problems were solved.

    As far as ICE incarcerating people without trial, I think all of us are in that illegal immigrant boat now.
     
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  16. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Well, I've actually been to one of those ICE private jails (yes, they're run by Corrections Corporations of American) and trust me, as bad as the bureaucracy is now, we're long ways from that point.
     
  17. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    I was thinking of the Senate's present to the American people today:
    Although if the jail provides health care, that would be an improvement.
     
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  18. N965VJ

    N965VJ Original Member

    Yes, and VIPR team shows of force farce. This is one of the reasons the TSA should be place under control of the FAA to keep them from creeping into other things.
     
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  19. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    I don't see where that hideous legislation came from. My fellow leftists over at Daily Kos all hated it -- I really don't see who's in favor of this.
     
  20. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Unfortunately, lots of our esteemed legislators -- from both parties -- are in favor of it, as well as millions of clueless Americans.

    Anyone who now still cringes and howls at the term "police state" isn't worth talking to. I hope everyone who ignored the signs over the past ten years is happy.
     

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