Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Doober, Jun 28, 2011.
First off, this was an interesting piece. While we were obviously being fed the TSA party line from Sothers, I'm glad to see that more people are starting to realize what TSA is... Smoke and Mirrors. Below this video, there was another video with the former managing director of the NTSB, Peter Goelz.
Layered Approach & The Stupid Layer
As we all know, TSA has their system of layers for their security operation. In the long run, I suppose it may make sense, but it does not appear to allow for any type of common sense. As with most TSA "situations", none of the clerks know how to use common sense. They feel as though they are on the front lines of guarding America, and by being nice to anybody, or just treating somebody with respect, they'll lose the little power that they have over us. As we saw here, the poor lady had to deal with the stupid layer.
How Far Is Too Far?
This is a very important question that we don't seem to be asking, or if we do, then it's disguised to avoid being answered. We've gone through some much crap since 9/11, and just keep bending over for the TSA. When are we, as The American People, growing to grow a pair and stand up to these thugs? Enough is Enough!
Children/Elderly Used As Suicide Bombers
Sommers mentioned the fact that children and the elderly have been used to transport suicide bombs in other countries. My first reaction- When has this every happened in North American? To my knowledge, I don't think we've had anybody strap up the diaper of a 95 year-old, terminal cancer patient, and send her through the checkpoint. While some places may need to worry about these situations, I believe it is highly unlikely that we'll face a situation like this. If something does happen, we also need to think about acceptable risk. Yes, the world is a dangerous place, but if we treat everybody like a criminal, then we'll be living in a place that requires passports for inter-state travel, and travel authorization to drive down to the grocery store.
Pistole & A Formal Apology
After the incident @ IAD with the colostomy bag, I've never been one to trust Pistole. He seems to promise things that he'll just default on, or pull out some bull (expletive deleted) answer. The standard party line is "We've reviewed the situation, and our A.S.S. acted professionally, boiler plate, bull crap, etc".. When will TSA just own up and apologize? How can you say that somebody was treated with respect and dignity, when a 95 year-old woman was made to remove her diaper?!
Case for screening?
We all know how much of an illusion TSA is, but when have we seen them make a real case for the type of security that is being enforced? I know they feel that they need to keep America "safe, but how much is really necessary? TSA continues to waste time on the little things, while it seems that they allow "threats" to stroll right through the checkpoint. Remember the chef @ ORD that got four knives through the checkpoint?
I loved Sothers' line about "If you engage them in an adversarial manner, you distract from the people who really do need secondary screening."
Hey, Goebbels? ASK ME IF I GIVE A (expletive deleted). That was the worst excuse I've ever heard and the best reason TO engage TSOs adversarially. Maybe you prevent someone else from getting traumatized or ripped-off. TSOs can't lift iPods, laptops and cameras when they're busy being reminded of the Constitutional rights they're violating.
The El Al security manager nailed it. "That's not security. That's a joke."
Heartening, too, to see the anchor not even come close to apologizing for or sympathizing with TSA. And Sothers really came across as a drone vomiting up the party line. Yeffet comes across as far more seasoned and with a much better grasp of the issue at hand.
Sother's repeated use of the term "We have seen..." when describing the most bizarre scenarios with respect to child and geriatric bombers strikes me as most egregiously misleading.
"We" haven't seen that. Unless our government does an obscenely bad job of managing this nation's economy in the next decade, we won't see these tragedies.
The TSA is pretending we live in a nation that is far worse than it actually is. It would be as if I answered every ring of my doorbell with a loaded short barrel pointed at my guest's midsection, drove with sandbags on my floorboards and made the kids wear flak jackets and carry gas masks every time they left the house.
I would be declared crazy and criminally abusive if I acted as I described. I believe the TSA is equally crazy and criminally abusive.
"We have seen..." :vomit:My Aunt Fannie! The more I ponder this silliness the more upset I get. The inmates are definitely running the asylum.
I yelled at the television: "Not in the United States you (expletive deleted)!!!!" when I heard that statement.
NBC could not have presented a better spokeshole for the TSA side than Southers. Too bad NBC didn't tell its viewers that he withdrew his nomination as TSA administrator because he had accessed certain databases to find information about his ex-wife's boyfriend.
Those tragedies in other countries were created by a total breakdown of cultural norms and economic privation resulting from decades of internal strife. This country has a problem or two, I'll grant that. We're still nowhere near that bad. It will take long periods of criminal mismanagement on the part of our government to create problems that serious. Until things are that fouled up, pretending things are that fouled up is exactly the kind of costly dysfunctionalism that will lead to the problems the TSA imagines they contend with now.
This is why the US is going to (expletive deleted) in a handbasket.
We need to take back our country. Throwing the bums out isn't feasible, because it doesn't work. Nobody will throw them out.
A mob in DC might make a point.
Where's my pitchfork? And where are the tar and feathers?
When I hear reasoning such as this from TSA, I immediately think of one of the most valuable lessons I ever learned from my sainted grandmother:
You hate most in others what you fear in yourself.
It is becoming patently obvious that, as an organization, the TSA lives in fear of its own shadow. After all, as has been pointed out several times, the proportion of thieves, rapists, kiddie diddlers, drug smugglers, rule breakers, and other miscreants far, far outweighs the proportion of terrorists in the populations it actually does screen. They look amongst themselves and see absolute chaos and those with no regard for lawful, respectful and dignified behavior. They therefore assume that others must be beat into submission. It is precisely why there even is a 4th Amendment.
Furthermore, when you treat someone a certain way for an extended period of time, they begin to believe it. Therefore, if TSA continues to treat everyone as an assumed terrorist, then people actually will start to act like terrorists. They will create their own problem. And maybe that's precisely what they want. As a bureaucracy their primary goal is not only to exist, but to grow. If they create terrorists, then they actually will have something to do. Imagine the fun they'll have then.
IOW, the country gets the TSA it deserves, and likewise the TSA gets the country it deserves.
not to be insensitive barbell, but I see you are temporarily non grata on ft. how did that happen and ciarin is still there...I wonder who funds FT and how susceptible FT is to getting its chain yanked by powers that be...
Your grandmother was spot on, barbell.
How very astute of you.
Someone asked Ciarin what she'd do if SOP was to perform cavity searches.
I posted that in most cases the response is "Just doin' mah job!"
I'm suspended for "desparaging [sic] another member". Ironically my suspension expires on July 4, though I doubt I'll be back much more.
Which is too bad, because I really want to expand the discussion on the BOS cancer clusters. That's OK, I'm working on a meaty discussion we can all have over here.
Thanks, Doober! Boy, do I adore and miss that woman something fierce.
He was a very naughty boy who pushed the wrong button on essxjay's control panel. Next time go for the red one labeled "Emergency Stop".
FT is self-funding thro0ugh pay-by-click ads, e.g. Google AdSense. They generate enough revenue that RP was able to sell it to IB for around $4M, although it appears that IB perhaps overestimated the revenue stream a bit given the economic situation.
I have actually used this very tactic for this very reason. I've done it when told to stop telling people that the PornoScan machines use ionizing radiation which is dangerous, and I've done it when TSA refuses to tell me exactly which body parts they're going to touch. The more of them there are surrounding me and not manning the PornoScans, the more people get to escape the strip search and genital groping.
I call it the 'Take One For The Team' method. TOFTT. And I have thanked other people who I have observed TOFTTing whether they knew they were or not.
I thought that was funny. Ciarin was over the line confrontational with exbayern, calling her a chick as if it were an expletive. She was pretty much a joke. Had nothing going for her and it showed.
They tell you to stop talking about the NoSs as dangerous? What do they say and how do you respond? How do they respond to your response and how do you res...well, you get the idea.
Typically the smurf will tell me that I 'can't tell people that' and then they threaten to or actually do call a supervisor over. I have, in some instances, been surrounded by up to seven smurfs of various stripe levels all telling me that they will 'get law enforcement' if I don't shut up. It's always presented as a 'choice' between 'law enforcement' or 'shutting up'.
That's when I say this, loudly but not shouting:
Are you, as an agent of the federal government, attempting to restrict under threat my First Amendment right to engage in protected speech of a political nature? I need your full name and badge number for my attorney.
In most cases that's the end of it. In some, they actually bring over a cop. I've not yet gotten to the point where the cop tried to make me shut up. Their response so far has been that as long as I am only talking, not making threats and not refusing to comply, they can't do anything.
Separate names with a comma.