Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Mike, Jun 25, 2012.
Inert, of course, ...
Government Security News: Bazooka round causes DFW evacuation
So they found another toy, and engaged in wildly melodramatic security theater - again?!
Who's their PR consultant, Jerry Springer?
If no noticeable way to determine whether the piece is inert is to be had (such as a conclusive capability to identifiy it as inert), for an item like this, I am pretty content with the call to have EOD control it. This is big enough that if it were to detonate, it could do quite a bit of carnage to life, limb and assorted equipment. While it may seem like an over-reaction, if the team on scene had not taken these steps, and the thing had detonated, people could very easily (actually quite likely would) have been killed, or at the least maimed. TSOs and the majority of our employees (with the exception of the TSSEs) are not trained to evaluate, or give conclusive determinations as to whether something like this is inert or live.
Inert does not mean toy in the vast majority of cases. It means something that looks, feels and acts almost exactly like the real thing, without the boom at the end. Many items are color coded in the military, when I was in blue signified training tools, green signified holy crap this thing can really blow up! This does not mean that someone could not stuff a blue shell/grenade/other training item with live explosives or vice versa. When dealing with things that look, sound and walk like a real item, caution should always be exercised.
That's quite a change. Usually, the TSA gathers five or six of their blue-shirted hydrocephalic chimps around the "suspect device" to argue about what to do with it.
Oh, wait. It clearly says the 100-foot perimeter wasn't established until actual law enforcement officers showed up.
If these neurotic fruitcakes weren't pawing around in other people's possessions, they wouldn't find objects that make them anxious and result in costly, time-consuming exercises in mass stupidity.
The TSA's histrionic spectacles are just one example of why the 4th amendment is absolutely relevant to the 21st century. A government that minds its own business and stays out of private citizens' crotches and personal effects wastes fewer tax dollars embarrassing itself.
Boundaries are a good thing. The Bill of Rights codifies right and wrong for dum-basses, sociopaths and authoritarian loons. The rest of us should never permit our government to stray from the tenets of the US Constitution, because government employment is irresistible to dum-basses, sociopaths and authoritarian loons.
I dunno Elizabeth. A bazooka round is something I'd like the tsa to find...
I'd like them to find it too...
in their own undies.
So if it's green you run for cover, but if it's blue you swab it first and then make an intelligent decision based on the results.
Yes, I realize that intelligent decisions are complete outside TSA's realm of experience.
Do you think they've got room in there? I mean, they've all got their heads in there already...
I've run out of arguments. Sorry, Rugape, this is just insane. Insane.
What are you going to do when someone detonates himself or "a real item" anywhere else in the airport, as already happened at Domodedovo? Why does no one ever (expletive deleted) answer this question?? What are you going to do? People crammed at security checkpoints are sitting ducks. Hello?? Extend the "security perimeter" outside the airport? But what about curbside check-in? Nobody can blow something up there? How about the parking garage? Baggage claim? Airport cafe? Restaurant? Coffee shop? Take-your-pick?
Rugape, do you copy? Will you answer this question?
Oops, lemme guess -- it's SSI.
And exactly how does one detonate it in the absence of a bazooka?!I can just see a terrorist repeatedly banging the cartridge on the arm rest while a FA serves soda and nearby passengers offering assistance.
What do you guys smoke to make you actually believe this nonsense?
100 foot perimeter on on a RPG style round is still in the blast zone (Death or severe injuries). FUBAR and smurfs increase risks of death left and right.
I have drop 50 BMG rounds on concrete and they didn't go off. They are plenty dangerous but just don't detonate that easily.
They're just large cartridges -- you have to impact the primer with something pointed.
As a kid we did some pretty dumb things with handgun & rifle cartridges, e.g. launching them across a parking lot w/ a heavy duty sling shot -- and they never went off.
Ammunition is very stable unless discharged as designed or incinerated.
And even incinerated aren't any threat unless you're burning cases of them.
I have a pistol(back up) in my car in Texas summers and never had a issue with them going off.
We even had a idiot at the range (similar to fishers) bouncing pistol rounds off the concrete deck without a issue last month till he reached for rim fire (22LR and 22magnum) then the range officers put a stop to it. If you want to Fubar your ammo go for it's your money wasted. At the current price of 50cal rounds I'd cringe when they hit the deck.
Bottom line is that they could simply have a containment area for ammo not evacuate the terminal. If it's live, pile it up and let the local LE take control of it one a week or so.
Walmart has gondolas full of ammo and no one evacuates the store when someone gets a box.
Our local Walmart has 100 round boxes of 12 gauge skeet shot sitting right on the shelf, no assistance needed, just put it in the cart like a bag of cookies. Carry that box into an airport and TSA will evacuate the building and make national news.
And a credulous media will lap it up.
I copy, but this is a loaded question. TSA primarily is not responsible for security outside of the checkpoints/bag rooms and is not responsible for the physical security anywhere - we are not armed, we are not LEO, and are therefore not tasked with providing LEO style security - which is what would be responsible for preventing/responding to what you are indicating above. A motivated person can do all of the things you list above, and more, but that is not the TSA realm. TSA is primarily tasked with protecting the nations transportation systems mostly seen at airports scanning the passengers and baggage, but also through cooperative programs and such at airports and other mass transportation venues. The vast majority of TSA employees are not armed, and are not tasked in the way you are asking about above - the FAMs have some of the responsbilities, but are traditionally limited in the scope of their duties, meaning they are not tasked with patrolling the airport common areasa or parking lots or any of the other locations you mention above. Those areas are the responsibility of the local LEOs assigned to those duties.
As for what I would do if someone detonated? If I were not injured badly, I would set up a perimeter, begin giving first aid and have someone contact emergency services. I would also direct anyone not actively involved in rendering first aid to keep watch on the perimeter to see if any secondary items were around. Third, I would go home and pour myself a stiff drink and hug the woman and cry (at least I think that would be a fairly good assumption as to what I would do). You say that what happened here was insane? When a TSO finds what appears to be an explosive device, following the regulations and contacting someone that is trained in disposing of said item with a lower possibility of it causing death or damage is insane? Have you ever been near something blowing up? It is bad, extremely bad, not just for the individual that is right on top of the item, but for those within a varying range based on the type of device - calling for the proper disposal team is simply common sense. Taking a possible explosive device and tinkering with it, without the proper expereince or training would be insanity.
It would take about 5 minutes to rig it to detonate with the right items - which are not all that hard to find in todays world.
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