Hollyweird's Take on Gun Control

Discussion in 'What's On Your Mind?' started by Elizabeth Conley, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Way to go trampling the 1st amendment on the way to defend the 2nd. Guilt by association much? different people, different cities, different decades.
    WPP established some serious 4th amendment case law, which I had not known about before. Feinstein on the 4th amendment is a nightmare.
    The folks in SF ran a food co-op and supported their right to defend themselves against an unjust government. That's it. They were politically targeted. I have a problem with that.
     
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  2. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member



    No, I've got no use for most gun laws. They endanger and criminalize good people. They empower the state to abuse and terrorize citizens, and even murder them. They waste a lot of our tax dollars. Take the TSA's euphoria over every gun they find. Consider that for every gun they find there must be 3-7 that pass through without notice. That's a lot of guns, but not one single crime or accident has resulted. OK, there was a keystone cop who shot himself with a passenger's weapon when he found it in a bag.:rolleyes: It just goes to show that even prohibitions against guns on flights are that sound so-o reasonable are actually nonsensical.

    I do think that gun owners have a responsibility to secure their weapons and keep their guns out of the hands of young children, mentally ill people and thieves. I also think that people who are taking certain medications should voluntarily surrender their firearms until they are weaned off psychotropics. I also think that selling firearms to violent felons is negligent at best. That's about it. Gun laws should focus on people and their behaviors, not particular weapons.

    An armed community is honest, safe and unfailingly courteous. I've spent most of my life in such communities, and I like it that way.

    PS: one of the things that the gun grabbers seem oblivious to is that guns are getting much, much easier to manufacture and modify. There are technologies out that will make basement weapons factories routine if real bans, registration drives and confiscations occur. It's too late for gun bans. That window of opportunity, if it ever truly existed, has closed. There are a lot of Americans who still possess ingenuity and drive that even America's mind numbing public education system can not destroy. They will consider it an irresistible and intriguing challenge to correct any such imbalance of power the state may attempt to create.
     
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  3. RB

    RB Founding Member

    We have enough gun laws on the books now. How about enforcement? How about any illegal alien found with a gun or comitting a crime with a gun being dealt with harshly. Use a gun in the commision of a crime results in an added 20 years to any other sentence. Murder someone and life or death penalty results. Letting criminals walk is part of this problem.
     
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  4. DeafBlonde

    DeafBlonde Original Member

    Not so dumb when its 101 degrees outside, with 90+% humidity! (Welcome to Houston!)
     
  5. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    We aren't talking about the TSA here.

    Well, we're in agreement here.

    I wouldn't want to live in that community. I like my interactions to be spontaneous and not necessarily 'unfailingly courteous'. 'Unfailingly courteous' because you're afraid of being shot isn't really freedom to be courteous. It's about fear.

    What do you think would happen if the government really honestly truly decided to take your guns? That's right, war. And who do you think would win? Believe me when I say I hope that day never comes.
     
  6. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Did they all die?
     
  7. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    I agree -- it's not my most favorite activity ever, but we all need the cardio. I switch it up with jump rope and kick boxing.
     
  8. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Ask baby seals how effective clubs are. :D
     
  9. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    5 did because of crushed / caved in skulls or broken necks at the C-1/2 level. The rest had life threatening injuries including mutliple broken bones(Necks, backs, legs etc), crushed treachas and skull fractures. There was so much blood on that scene; when I was done my unifrom was a complete loss and had to be burned. I went home in scrubs after exposure testing.

    Out of all the major calls for fights/assaults ones involving guns have been the least gruesome and least amount of life threatening injuries. The lower the speed and more blunt the object the worse the injuries that have presented on scene.
     
  10. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    So exactly who was jailed, and why?
     
  11. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    yes. she was going nowhere in politics when that happened. got defeated for mayor, then backdoored in when Dan White ate too many Twinkies.

    suppose she'll give up her own carry .38 when she bans guns for everyone else? I don't. Members of my family worked with her father at one time, who was a pretty good doctor. She sure turned out to be a major disappointment not only on this issue, but on civil liberty issues in general.
     
  12. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member



    By talking in this way we always get this backward. It's not that WE have rights, it's that the federal government (and the individual states) have no right to deprive citizens of arms. You know, the rights inherent to man by his nature. That's pretty much absolute.

    What Elizabeth is concerned with, and what most of us on this side are concerned with is that such lists are not a privacy threat, they are a practical threat. They constitute a hit list and such lists have always preceded confiscations.
     
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  13. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    The amendment process was designed for major changes in the relationship of governed to government, and should suffice here.
    The amendment process was abandoned because polititians and bureaucrats wanted what THEY want, and they didn't want to accept what the people want. Those in favor of the absolute power of the State hate the Constitution because it imposes limits and tempers state power.
     
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  14. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    1. Is the TSA part of the U.S. Federal Government? Does it operate within the U.S., interacting with U.S. citizens? In short, why is the TSA off limits to this discussion? Sounds like an artificial and arbitrary boundary to me.

    2. Good.

    3. Then don't. I'm not afraid of being shot. Only personality disordered people who are driven to commit boundary violations against others are constrained by fear. The rest of us are constrained by common decency and have nothing to fear whatsoever. Being capable of self defense isn't about fear, it's about accepting the responsibilities of an adult citizen.

    It rarely occurs to me that any shots may be fired. On rare occasions when crime seems likely, I notice that criminals tend to shy away from our kind. They look at us, and they know some of us are armed. Which ones of us are armed? Hard to tell. Those who prefer martial arts to guns for self defense have the same air of assurance the concealed carry citizens project. Criminals always prefer soft targets.

    4. (a) A great deal of chaos while people figure out which side they're on, Might is Right or the Rule of Law and the Constitution. (b) War? Don't be silly. Of course the people who support the Constitution and the rule of law would win. The gun grabbers are a combination of criminal conspirators and gullible bleeding hearts. They are a minority, just as they were in Germany and many other places where they won in the past. The difference is us. We are not falling for the lies like the countless victims in China, Vietnam, the Soviet Union and Germany. They can dumb down public education to a fare-the-well, but they can't burn every book and destroy every record. We know what's at stake. (c) It won't, at least not as you imagine it.
     
  15. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Has the Taliban won a single battle in Afghanistan? Not to my recollection. They always get their butts kicked in a regular engagement. Yet, are they not driving out our troops? Are not our troops pinned down and masters only of their bases? Do not our troops have to pay the Taliban to let the troops' own supplies through?

    How many battles did George Washington win? Extremely few, and none for the early part of the war. Got his butt kicked. Yet the Brits could occupy any city they chose, but then were stuck there, unable to venture out much into hostile territory. How was Napolean driven out of Spain? Guerrilla tactics are always the resort of the outgunned, pardon the pun, and effective over time.

    You don't have to win battles to win the war.

    Nobody in their right mind wants a conflict. But the fact that so many Americans are armed certainly changes the way the military and the ruling elites look at the equation when it comes to seizing absolute power. It certainly gives them pause, and that serves the best interest of all of us whether we are armed or not. It helps maintain the mutual respect that should exist on BOTH sides of the governing/governed compact.

    For that reason, any attempt to build lists of gun owners MUST be seen as the precursor to eliminating the strategic threat coming from them.
     
  16. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    I think it was over trumped-up gun charges, after some search/seizure. More than one was locked up for some time, out of just a handful of people. Remember, this is the 80's, having survived COINTELPRO and well-known SF police harassment including SFPOA threatening them. I remember them as recording their own surveillance out the window of their flat. The Food Conspiracy was a hippie/yippie economic self-sufficiency effort that the SF WPP was (still) running by the 80's. The fresh fruit and vegetables, bulk cheese, was excellent quality. It was greatly missed. http://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=The_Food_Conspiracy. To some they may look like a bunch of dirty pinko hippie scum that should be shot or learn to buy their groceries at Walmart. To each his own.
     
  17. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Lists are very much both a privacy and practical threat.
     
  18. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Absolutely!
     
  19. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    That was how the Nazi solidified their power in Germany. They also required people to register ammunition purchases, so they could figure out who had unregistered weapons.
     
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  20. Frank

    Frank Original Member

    Can we apply this to cops, too? They commit crimes on a daily basis.
     

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