Is Cognitive Dissonance Ever Fatal?

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Elizabeth Conley, Sep 8, 2011.

  1. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    Alternative Title: WTF?

    Inside TSA's "No Fly Zone"

    Has the author ever read the U.S. Constitution, to include the Bill of Rights?

    This amazing selective idiocy reminds me of Screwtape writing to Wormwood:

    Are we a nation of nitwits with brains full of marshmallow fluff?

    I'm cranky today. I guess I'll knock off the caffeine.
  2. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    In partial defense of the author:

  3. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    I just don't see how this can work. I read Paul Ekman's book a while ago and it was interesting - but - he's been doing this for years, and wasn't doing it in an airport environment. TSA agents will get how much training? (I ask sarcastically) And I don't believe for a minute that this won't involve racial profiling, even though they say it won't. And giving the TSA the benefit of the doubt for a moment, who will they catch? My guess is that it won't be terrorists, but someone with drugs or something. Do we really want this kind of a dragnet to catch someone with some pot?

    I know it's fashionable to fawn all over Israeli security, but the U.S. is not Israel. And I don't know how many people have been through airport security in Israel, but I have. And it takes a very long time. You can be questioned for 20 min or more. Then there's the physical search of your stuff. When I was there, they had a long table with 7 or 8 people behind it. They opened up everything and searched everything. They did put everything back - often neater than it was originally. And you were right there on the other side of the table in case they had any questions for you. Man, that was a process. Then you can check bags. Of course they're not really 'checked' at that point (as in sitting in the plane). Nope. When you board your plane you have to point out your bags to the guys loading up the plane. It's only after they've matched your bag to you that you and your bags get to board.

    I think we had gotten to the airport 4 hours in advance in order to make sure we had time for all of that. Can we do that here? I'm pretty sure the answer is 'no'. Travel would grind to a halt. And my point is if the TSA is going to do behavioral profiling, then it's got to be done all the way. The Israeli questioners didn't stop at "where are you going" and "how long are you going to be there" - they followed up if they felt it was necessary. They made my s.o. show them the notes he had made while in a meeting (a confidential business meeting), they quizzed him about all of his relatives (he's Jewish), who we visited, where did we eat, where did we go, etc. Almost forgot - throughout this whole process no one ever touched me or my s.o. .

    A lot of this brings up First and Fourth Amendments and the impact this type of passenger scrutiny brings. I'll just ask one question though - at what point in all of this questioning do I get the right to have an attorney present?

    I guess this is my very long-winded way of agreeing with you Elizabeth. :)
  4. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Oh right, one more thing. I've read in a couple of places that the questioning of passengers in Israel begins before they get to the airport (I didn't experience this so I can't verify). They can be questioned in cars or buses as they are in a queue to arrive at the airport. There ends up being several opportunities to question people before they ever get close to a plane.

    Can you imagine what would happen if we started questioning people as soon as they got on the off ramp, on say, 101 leading up to SFO? :eek: At maybe, 3pm? :eek:
  5. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    This is the part that most catches my eye.

    This is not, as some have assumed, a way to avoid scope and grope. It is, as I correctly predicted (I'll cite my reference later), a way to pile on the bs. This system in no way makes screening "easier" for the screened. It merely adds yet.another.layer so as to introduce additional scrutiny. Not less.

    Lisa Simeone and Sunny Goth like this.
  6. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    BillFoster wrote this back in mid-August:

    Can we quote a single post here?
  7. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  8. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Agreed. And my question still remains - at one point do passengers get to have an attorney present when they're being asked all of these questions, potentially in a separate room no less.
  9. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    Of course not.

    Any assertion of your rights at a checkpoint is grounds for suspicion.

    I've lost count the number of times I've been told something along the lines of, "You must have something to hide."

    The whole thing is a witch hunt. Nothing more.
    Doober and Lisa Simeone like this.
  10. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    The Israelis are watching you as you approach the airport, walk into the airport, walk around, etc. But bombs still go off in Israel, as I keep saying. They may have eliminated bombs on planes, but they've learned to accept them elsewhere. There's no such thing as 100% security anywhere.

    But rather than just type all this stuff again, go see my comment at the Boston article that prompted this thread.
  11. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    So very true.
  12. darwin76

    darwin76 Original Member

    These people are idiots. I play poker semi-professionally and I can guarantee that if Bigfoot, Elvis, and Jimmy Hoffa were hiding in my luggage they would not be able to pick up on any behavioral cue indicating as such.

    The questions are intrusive and worthless. The 9/11 terrorists spent months training for that attack. If behavioral detection is the future, then terrorists will drill at keeping a straight face and a calm attitude.

    This hamheaded approach to security is little more than a run-on confirmation bias. They're looking for signs of exhausted and frustrated travelers, which is exactly what they will find.

    On a larger scale, between all the scans, groping, identification, and questioning, I think the higher ups are preparing and conditioning Americans for mindless compliance and obedience on a larger scale. I think we'll see the day where identification and bag x-rays are necessary to enter malls, concerts, and movie theaters.
  13. darwin76

    darwin76 Original Member

    Israel is slightly smaller than New Jersey and has only two airports.

    I can't even begin to imagine the nationwide SNAFU if they attempted to implement anything close to the Israeli system, which won't even be possible without fully shredding the Constitution and declaring personal privacy dead.
  14. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Seconding everything. Though as serious as it all is, am still laughing my (expletive deleted) off at the "Bigfoot, Elvis, and Jimmy Hoffa" sentence!
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  15. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    There's part of me, though, that thinks these nightmare scenarios can't happen. Doesn't mean they won't try and absolutely FUBAR the whole process and annoy a few brown people in the process. I just think that long term they'll crush under their own weight.

    Of course, that's not going to stop me from fighting it. Every.Step.Of.The.Way. ^
    DeafBlonde and Elizabeth Conley like this.

Share This Page