Is this for real?

Discussion in 'What's On Your Mind?' started by Elizabeth Conley, Nov 27, 2011.

  1. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Take a case? It's tough to get a call back from the ACLU, in fact, you can't get a call back.
    The ACLU would defend bona fide brown terrorists, but if you or I have our liberties abridged, --(expletive deleted), if you are attacked by a mob because you are white, AND you are not gay--NO ONE at the ACLU cares. I'm over the ACLU and their pimp attorneys.
     
  2. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    You are not alone in that view:
    Arrest McCain and Levin Now. Senate to Vote on Military Detention of Americans.
    As approved by the Senate, Fanboy Lindsay Graham:
    I don't trust Obama to veto this or any Republican but Ron Paul to demand Congress strike the provision.
    The messy Op-Ed with the great headline continues:
     
  3. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    The senate voted 60 something to 30 something to retain these grim provisions for the enslavement of us all.
     
  4. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Really excellent comment from rlyoung311:
    On Udall's Amendment, Rand Paul (KY) and Mark Kirk (IL.) from the GOP voting YEA, with Olympia Snowe (ME) YEA on Paul's Amendment.
    Traitor list from Huff summary, DEM NAYs on the Udall Amendment:
    Bob Casey (Pa.), Kent Conrad (N.D.), Kay Hagan (N.C.), Daniel Inouye (Hawaii), Herb Kohl (Wis.), Mary Landrieu (La.), Carl Levin (Mich.), Joe Manchin (W. Va.), Clair McCaskill (Mo.), Robert Menendez (N.J.), Ben Nelson (Neb.), Mark Pryor (Ark.), Jack Reed (R.I.), Jeanne Shaheen (N.H.), Debbie Stabenow (Mich.) and Sheldon Whitehouse (R.I.), plus Lieberman (CT);
    and even more NAYS on Paul's Amendment.
    Feinstein has an Amendment coming up.

    Open comments on AJC piece titled Senate Detainee Showdown. Wish they were the detainees...
     
  5. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Unbelievable. Unbelievable. This country has lost its collective mind. I know I've been saying for years, but this puts the seal on it.

    Anyone who now still cringes at the term "police state" is not worth talking to. This legislation is obscene. And the cowards who voted for it are criminal.
     
  6. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    where is the need for this kind of measure? are there just dozens and dozens or more people who have needed to be rounded up in the US and haven't been? Clearly, folks want this to expand activity and simply get rid of those they otherwise could not, HAVING NO LEGAL (ie, real) grounds to do so. The writing on the wall is getting larger and larger.

    Unfortunately, our best alternative to the north is a bit too close physically and politically. Habla espanol?
     
    KrazyKat likes this.
  7. Leave no trace

    Leave no trace Original Member

    Sadly Canada is fast becoming a copy of the USA.
     
  8. lkkinetic

    lkkinetic Original Member

    Here's a good article from Lucy Steigerwald at Reason about the Paul-McCain debate over Udall's ill-fated amendment. I was pleasantly surprised to see Sen. Kirk vote Y on it.

    Some of the more sensible folks in DoD and other places who would actually have to implement the mandatory detention of foreign terrorist-designees and the not-ruled-out detention of American terrorist-designees have actually pointed out that this provision would make us less secure, by diverting scarce resources from more valuable and effective uses.

    If it passes, let's see if Obama actually delivers on his threatened veto. I'm not holding my breath.
     
  9. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Ditto.
     
  10. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    Here's an excellent editorial about allowing the U.S. Executive branch the power to suspend a citizen's rights:

    http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/po...oner-should-presidents-have-a-license-to-kill

    Yes, it's very long. That being said, it's also very informative. If reading the whole thing is too painful, scroll down to "Jose Padilla: 
Not Getting the Story Straight". This is well worth the read.
     
  11. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

  12. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    the vance case is a perfect illustration of why this must be stopped. He was tortured and imprisoned for no real reason other than offending someone in power. This was so egregious that a federal judge allowed his lawsuit to proceed against a US secretary of defense, Don Rumsfeld. Just another indication of things crumbling to dust in our country.
     
  13. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

  14. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Lies are a way of life in Congress. And McCain should be ashamed of himself. He once, briefly, was a spokesperson against torture. But anything for expediency -- he's a liar like so many others.

    Leaving aside the hideousness and wrongness of torture, under any circumstances, many of the people at Guantanamo never even heard of 9/11. They were farmers, taxi drivers, just ordinary people trying to scratch out a living. Then suddenly they get swept up by highly armed commandos and transported to the other side of the world to be abused. Often they were turned in simply because U.S. troops bribed Afghan warlords: turn in a guy you have a grudge against, make 2,000 bucks. No questions asked.

    And now here's McCain -- and others -- not only brushing off everything that Guantanamo represents, but actually saying it's okay to detain and imprison American citizens with no charges.

    Back to Lisa's broken-record turntable: every wrong that we perpetrate on others eventually comes back to be perpetrated on ourselves.
     
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  15. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    My blog on Daily Kos for this had the subtle title: Carl Levin and Lindsay Graham, were you DRUNK? Here's how the legislation works: It defines a Bad Guy, let's call him BOOGEYMAN.

    Currently the BOOGEYMAN has to be a member of Al Qaeda or its affiliates, and has to be at least planning an attack on the U.S. or "its coalition partners". The BOOGEYMAN can be any nationality or citizenship, even U.S.. If the BOOGEYMAN is captured abroad, the armed services are required to hold the BOOGEYMAN forever and keep him out of civilian courts. The armed services are empowered to arrest the BOOGEYMAN stateside, but are not required, in the case of stateside arrests, to keep the BOOGEYMAN out of civilian courts.

    Thus, if someone in the army thinks you are the BOOGEYMAN, it will be up to the army to decide if you get a lawyer, jury trial, etc.
     
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  16. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Blame it on the source, not the collective people of this country. No one voted for martial law.
    Only to explain this bill to them, since those who aren't on the left/right emails the rest of us are, won't get this from the headlines. (And while you're explaining, suggest they re-register Republican immediately to vote Ron Paul in the primaries.:D)
     
  17. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Nice post. Illustrated with photos from Chile's 9/11 (coincidence? you decide), I especially like:
    Since several of our Founding Fathers had a penchant for drink, I hardly think alcohol can be blamed for fascism.
    Rand Paul noted in his plea to the Senate that you can be rounded up for having stored-up over a week's worth of food.
     
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  18. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Feinstein's amendment (To clarify the applicability of requirements for military custody with respect to detainees; a finer point than Udall's to be sure) also went down 45-55. Here are the NAYs:
    NAYs ---55
    Alexander (R-TN)
    Ayotte (R-NH)
    Barrasso (R-WY)
    Begich (D-AK)
    Blunt (R-MO)
    Boozman (R-AR)
    Brown (R-MA)
    Burr (R-NC)
    Casey (D-PA)
    Chambliss (R-GA)
    Coats (R-IN)
    Coburn (R-OK)
    Cochran (R-MS)
    Collins (R-ME)
    Corker (R-TN)
    Cornyn (R-TX)
    Crapo (R-ID)
    DeMint (R-SC)
    Enzi (R-WY)
    Graham (R-SC)
    Grassley (R-IA)
    Hatch (R-UT)
    Heller (R-NV)
    Hoeven (R-ND)
    Hutchison (R-TX)
    Inhofe (R-OK)
    Inouye (D-HI)
    Isakson (R-GA)
    Johanns (R-NE)
    Johnson (R-WI)
    Kyl (R-AZ)
    Landrieu (D-LA)
    Levin (D-MI)
    Lieberman (ID-CT)
    Lugar (R-IN)
    Manchin (D-WV)
    McCain (R-AZ)
    McCaskill (D-MO)
    McConnell (R-KY)
    Moran (R-KS)
    Murkowski (R-AK)
    Nelson (D-NE)
    Portman (R-OH)
    Pryor (D-AR)
    Risch (R-ID)
    Roberts (R-KS)
    Rubio (R-FL)
    Sessions (R-AL)
    Shelby (R-AL)
    Snowe (R-ME)
    Stabenow (D-MI)
    Thune (R-SD)
    Toomey (R-PA)
    Vitter (R-LA)
    Wicker (R-MS)

    Not sure what else to say. Perhaps CartoonPeril and I will end up in the same NW detention facility.

    P.S. "“Yes, I’ll vote for the bill,” Feinstein told reporters after her first amendment was rejected 45-55." Now, that's my former Mayor and Senator!
     
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  19. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Thanks, no coincidence on the photos, Chile's 9/11 may be where we are headed, maybe not all at once, but bit by bit. I also used a poster commemorating Argentina's Night of the Pencils from the 1975-1981 Dirty War.
     
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  20. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Maybe we will. I actually yelled at a policeman on N17 in Portland -- I can't believe I did that! Does that make me a terrorist?
     
    Lisa Simeone likes this.

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