Jaunted posits VIPR as the greater long-term problem

Discussion in 'Railways, Highways, Waterways' started by Mike, Mar 24, 2012.

  1. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Too dismissive of TSA as just a nuisance, but perhaps correct that VIPR is the greater long-term problem ...

    Jaunted: Yes, TSA is Testing Some Common Sense New Rules about Senior Citizens, But...

  2. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    I hope people start to wake up. But I still don't believe they will. Not until they're being molested everywhere. And even then, lots of them will spew the usual "It's For Our Safety!"
    Monica47 likes this.
  3. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    For our safety...my (expletive deleted), Im more then capable of defending myself, and dont need any nanny-state BS.

    That maybe for most of the sheeple but there will be a segment of the population that wont put up with this shlock and will defend themselves to the full extent of the law.
  4. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    VIPR will be a greater long-term problem because much of the population will encounter VIPR teams over time, unlike the TSA. That, however, could also be its downfall.
  5. DeafBlonde

    DeafBlonde Original Member

    This may be true; however, I (for one) do not wish to see it get to this point mainly because by then I will have long been exiled to GITMO for not complying with their federal gooberment-authorized searches. :rolleyes:
  6. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    My fearless prediction: VIPR will be found to be unconstitutional when set up on highways. Probable cause to search is the standard. The only way I can see a VIPR search on a highway being constitutional is if the driver consents to the search.
  7. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    That's where intimidation comes in handy. Most people will be too scared to say "no", if they're even aware that they can.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  8. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    I see an education campaign in our future. :) And some number of lawsuits.
  9. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    I'd like to see billboards around major cities depicting a 20-something black dude in dreadlocks hanging his head out the car window & saying, "No, sir, I do not consent to a search."

    The 2nd half of your vision is more likely.
  10. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    It will be both - although some tactics will work better than others depending on the circumstances.
  11. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    To say we have an uphill battle with an education campaign is an understatement par excellence. Calling on my turntable again, I can't count the number of people I've talked to who are just fine with not only the TSA, but unwarranted searches in the Metro, on trains, etc. These people are the norm. "If you haven't done anything wrong, then what do you have to worry about?" etc. etc. ad nauseam.
  12. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Just because people, maybe even most people, are okay with it doesn't mean it's constitutional. I'm not sure how the Supreme Court would rule on VIPR teams searching people on subways and trains -- but they might rule in favor it using some kind of administrative search theory.

    Searching cars on highways is different. I just can't come up with a legal theory that would allow non-probable cause, non-consent, warrantless searches of a car. Checkpoints on city streets are allowed only under stringent circumstances - mostly to check for drunk drivers. Immigration officials search for illegal immigrants on highways using specific rules (not that I agree with this type of search, but there it is).

    And what would VIPR teams be looking for? Terrorists? Illegal immigrants? Guns? Drugs? And based on what criteria? Seems much too vague. I just don't see the Court upholding this type of search.
  13. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    Get the person for it and I will shoot it. Will have to find funding for the billboard space/time
  14. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    I bet people said the same thing about scanning, stripping, and groping, too. But look what we have.
  15. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Maybe. There's a world of difference (legally) between an administrative search in a public transportation system setting and decades of case law on car searches. One can make a straight-faced argument that administrative searches for planes, trains, etc., are useful because they thwart terrorism and prevent the deaths of anyone on said train or plane (hundreds of people). What's the argument for an administrative search of a car in this circumstance (excluding case law on DUI checkpoints)? Do you really set up checkpoints on highways, create traffic jams, create more potentials for accidents just so the TSA can look for phantom bombs? :confused:

    Of course, instituting administrative searches on public transportation just gums up the works with little or no benefit. My fear is that people end up getting fed up with being harassed by TSA when taking the subway, the bus, the train, and planes, that they decide to drive. Kind of like what we're starting to do now with plane travel.
  16. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    The idiots from TSA have already done just that:

    WSB-TV: Counter-Terrorism Operation on I-20

    It is important to note that I-20 is one of the main East-West thoroughfares through the Southeast. On a good day traffic on it in Atlanta is backed up for literally miles. Nevermind. The asshats from TSA made it worse. For your safety, of course.

    Blog Never Yet Melted quoted a report of the incident with the following:

    Except disrupting transportation systems is precisely what TSA did here. From blog Former Spook we gain additional data:

    But perhaps the best summary of the events can be found at the blog Radio Show Notes:

    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  17. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    One actual or false flag attack; that's all it would take. People would roll over. "That's just the way the world is now." "I'd rather be safe than sorry." "We all have to give up a few freedoms for safety." "It's no big deal." "You know what the drill is; why didn't you leave earlier? Why didn't you allow more time??"


    I'd like to believe people wouldn't put up with it. But again, look what they're putting up with at the airport. It's become so commonplace that even we here at TUG have a hard time working up any anger over it: we in this country have accepted routine abuse, even to the point of sexual assault, to get on a plane.

    This is stunning. Stunning. I don't know how else to express it.
    barbell likes this.
  18. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Yes, but that was one incident, two years ago, and the tractor-trailers were diverted to the weigh stations.

    What I'd like to know is if anyone refused to be diverted and if they didn't consent to the search. If everyone consented to the search, then no harm, no foul. The reasons behind the checkpoint were much too vague to be constitutional - especially since the checkpoint was not in response to any kind of specific threat (imo).
  19. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Don't forget about the massive, tri-state area VIPR operation last year. And the one in Florida where they stopped people's cars. Can dig up articles. The incident barbell pointed out is just one of many.
    barbell likes this.
  20. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    One incident that was reported.

    Have you driven by a truck weigh station in the Southeast? Particularly one around Atlanta? It's absolute chaos. There's one between my office and my home on an Interstate that isn't particularly heavily traveled (particularly compared to I-20). If I do not time my departure right from the office and I hit rush hour, forget it. Even this small diversionary area with no TSA involvement is backed up a minimum of a mile.

    The South's bread and butter is semi traffic in, around, and through her major cities.

    And best I can tell, not a single person refused the search. I imagine we would have heard about it.

    Truckers are a funny bunch. They're incredibly lone-wolf oriented. They're also independent contractors who can't afford to buck the system for fear of losing their jobs.

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