Kids Keep Shoes on in DEN/BOS/ATL/IAH/MIA - UPDATED

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by FriendlySkies, Aug 24, 2011.

  1. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    Pretty difficult to find middle ground here. Children are rarely patted down. The most common cause for them being patted down comes from parents who opt them out of AIT screening. The new procedures that will be put in effect real soon will change that to the point where it will be very rare for a child to be patted down unless a parent specifically requests a pat down. (For some children with disabilities, this is the only viable option. But it's still the parent's call.)

    I don't know what the statistics are, but I would venture to say that your neighbor's 13 year old is in good hands with 99+ % of the TSO workforce at any airport. Yeah, I know, you're going to disagree, and that's fine. It would spoil your rhetoric to admit that the actual percentage of pedophiles in the TSA workforce is less than one percent. So you're obligated to paint all of us with that broad stroke or else your argument loses legs. I understand.

    My point is that TSA is finally making a risk-based decision and giving both you and us TSOs a reasonable alternative when it comes to the screening of children. It's about goddamn time! I would love to give you more details, but this is literally hot off the press, and I have to be careful with what I print until I get more familiar with the information. (It's my weekend homework assignment.) No, I don't expect a bunch of members to change their opinion about TSA. But I do believe that this will be one less thing to bitch about. There's still the TDC, laptop screening and other things to whine and moan about, and that's fine. I'm hoping that TSA will also come to a reasonable solution for liquids, gels and aerosols. I see it pretty much as you probably do: a bottle of water is a bottle of water until proven otherwise. Still, TSA is taking steps in the right direction, albeit baby steps. Better than no steps at all.
    Rugape and nachtnebel like this.
  2. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    No one forces TSA to grope sex organs of 13 year olds, like Mrs. Abott's daughter who had extensive touching of her labia by the TSO womanin Tennessee. They do it of their own choice. I'm not sure why you're putting this on the airlines.
  3. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    I believe a great many of us would change our opinions of TSA when TSA merits this. I, for one, would LOVE to improve my opinion of the TSA. I'm looking forward to the changes rolling out. Mr. Pistole has burned us several times since last October, so you'll understand why we're waiting to "see the money".

    and for the record, by real changes, I don't mean letting me keep my shoes on. I just want hands off of my family members' bodies and no strip searches without cause.
    KrazyKat and barbell like this.
  4. RB

    RB Founding Member

    If TSO's don't touch the genitals of children do they touch the genitals of adults?
  5. Wimpie

    Wimpie Original Member

    I want to see TSA take giant steps out of our freaking airports!
  6. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    I refuse to acknowledge your wild allegation that there's any groping for children or adults. But I'll respond to your post in general terms. The age limit for "child" is 11 and under. This is not a TSA determination, as claimed in a previous post. It is consistent with the airline policy for accompanied minors, which the airlines established at 11. Children 12 and above may fly unaccompanied. The TSA policy is consistent with the airline policy.
  7. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    I hope you're not betting any money on that. Like it or not, TSA is here to stay.
  8. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    I take it that's my answer from my above thread:
    If TSA is going to deny the assaults as "wild allegations" then the agency is declaring war on the victims. Even Pistole isn't that stupid.
  9. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Possibly, but they'll end up w/ a much smaller footprint once TSA is forced to comply with local options to hire/contract their own screeners.
  10. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    I'm the one saying they're wild allegations because they are not standard procedure. I don't speak on behalf of TSA. I'm just posting my own personal comments.
  11. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    With all due respect, it does happen. I know because I have, in fact, had my genitalia manipulated, and then was told, in effect, not only that it didn't happen, but also that I should be grateful that it might have.

    It happens.

    It happens every day.

    And for the record, I happen to be a subject matter expert on my genitalia.
    KrazyKat likes this.
  12. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    LOL! OK, if you say so.

    TSA will probably reduce in size, but that will be because of technology not because of any local options. Right now, the government contractors are having a heck of a challenge maintaining pace with TSA. If anything, I think the contractors will end up with a smaller footprint because they can't hold up their end of the contract. Otherwise, as TSA introduces new technology, it streamlines the workforce. In-line baggage handling systems eliminated a bunch of baggage screener positions. As TSOs quit, resign, or otherwise leave the workforce, their vacant positions will not be filled because they're no longer required. ATR AIT does the same thing by eliminating the image viewer position.

    At the end of the day, TSA will still be around.
  13. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Not wild allegations, there are video and first person reports that genital groping is happening at TSA checkpoints.
    Why is it so hard for TSA to just say that yes our frisks includes genitals?
  14. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    The standard pat down does not include direct contact with the genitals. There may be inadvertent contact; but that is no different than it was with the old pat-down. In fact, as I've pointed out at that other place, the only major change in the pat downs was that it went to a series of sliding motions instead of a patting down motion.

    The comments in here claim that the standard pat down procedure requires direct contact with the genitals. This is simply not true.

    And as I've pointed out previously, the challenge is to get the TSOs to pat down the groin area properly. Many of them pull back rather than push forward. These are my observations as a trainer, evaluator and test administrator (three different types of looks). So perhaps you may be able to understand why I simply cannot believe these claims when my own personal experience has been the opposite. Maybe other airports are different; but in my dealings with other airports, I've found them to be pretty much the same.

    Your mileage may vary.
  15. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Boggie Dog:
    Because it is a liability issue. AND why secret SOPs are such a problem. The system is fraught with potential for abuse, as we know all too well. But failure to address known abuse potential presents further liability issues...
  16. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    Instead of being snarky, why don't you present those "facts?" If you won't, then it leads us to rightfully believe that you cannot do so.
  17. Doober

    Doober Original Member$40712
  18. Doober

    Doober Original Member

  19. Bart

    Bart Original Member

  20. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    Are you playing the dolt for a particular reason?

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