Mandatory opt-out from TSA screening for Alaska airports

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Mike, Feb 24, 2012.

  1. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    As do those who carry out his orders, whether they complain about them "through proper channels" or not.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  2. RB

    RB Founding Member

    If to travel by air or any other method requires an interrogation of myself then that is unacceptable. Period!!!!!! That exceeds all parameters of a limited Administrative Search for WEI. If that is the RBS your speaking of then I cannot support it and will not cooperate with TSA in any way.

    Pistole is in a NO Win situation because he lacks good character and is clearly dishonest. He should be impeached!

    I disagree that a small percentage of the public is dissatisfied with TSA. TSA tactics of hiding, losing, and not responding to public complaints indicates to me that the percentages are much higher than the 10% you suggest.

    TSA is about as screwed up as any large organization can be. TSA functions poorly, TSA screens poorly, TSA treats the public poorly, and I bet that TSA Management treats its own employees poorly.

    Sometimes the only path forward is to discard the current mess and start fresh. I suggest starting fresh with a much lesser involvement of government in transportation systems.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  3. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Not just Pistole. Every single employee of the TSA meets that description.
  4. RB

    RB Founding Member

    We know about Pistole for sure based on his testimony before Congress and other things he has said and not done, not to mention his apparent disrespect for the Courts of this country.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  5. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Okay, what the (expletive deleted) is RBS? All I can find is Royal Bank of Scotland, Rutgers Business School, and a bunch of soccer articles.
  6. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Which in turn tells us everything we need to know about anyone willing to "work" for him.
  7. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Risk Based Screening=RBS
  8. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Thank you. I'm going to add to the Glossary.
  9. FaustsAccountant

    FaustsAccountant Original Member

    You've been responding with well written and non offensive posts, which I commend and encourage you to keep doing. (Conversely, which is exactly why TSORon, eyecue and those poster have earned zero respect from me.)

    But the bone I have to pick with this is THREE classes does not make a COLLEGE program.
    You have t admit that there's a lot of knowledge that needs to be mastered covering a whole wide range of subject, laws, logic-the list goes on and on.
    That's why I can't take it seriously.

    Call it "an intro to" or a "beginner's seminar" but not a COLLEGE program.

    Unless class 1 is an hour of monotone chanting "For your safety and the safety of other."
    Class 2 is "This does not represent TSA as a whole."
    Class 3 being first half "All proper procedures were follow to the highest standard " second half a class party then cap and gown fitting.

    For example, I'm a master electrician and I train apprentices, sign off journeymens-way more than 3 classes involved here.
    A good friend of mine lost a bet and went through clown college(don't ask)-more than 3 classes.
  10. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    I Google "TSA" daily for stuff to post here.

    In the last year there have been two major shifts in the tone & demeanor of what is published about TSA. Right now they are in the gutter.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  11. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Which is why it's time for a false flag operation. Gentlemen, start your engines!
    Doober and FaustsAccountant like this.
  12. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  13. I'm all for grassroots action, but I don't understand how you think there can be significant positive change when an institution is corrupt and abusive from the very top down. That's pretty naive to me.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  14. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Thank you for the kind words, I do my best to respond respectfully, even when folks make personal attacks here. Of course, I have the benefit of not responding off the cuff if something gives me pause here, so I may come off as a little bit less human than I really am (I do get mad sometimes, even if I don't show it). If I can't post something constructive or at least neutral, I do not post at all.

    The three classes are only the start of a program, it is only 3 of the core courses, and to get a degree, there is a whole list of other classes (humanities, electives and other core courses that are on the list as well). You get a certificate from DHS that you completed their particular assigned classes, but that and 3 bucks will get you a coffee some days.

    There is a lot of history (not just of DHS - face it, you can cover 10 years in about 2 hours, but of other organizations that have held tasks in the same line that DHS does), and a lot of reading on theory and security related subjects. The intelligence class was actually an interesting class with tons of history all the way back to Sun Tzu and before. I think the program is designed to take people that may not otherwise further their education to consider getting a degree. I personally think that it is a good program, and even if I had to pay for all of the courses, I would continue to take them (to the point that I am going to continue taking courses until I get a pair of degrees in this vein). Educating the workforce is a way to foster critical thinking, expand thought processes and provide better career paths (both internally and externally) for the people of the organization.

    I am a Journeyman Silversmith, and I understand the continuing classes or at the very least, hands on aspect. My entire first year of apprenticeship was nothing but buffing and stripping trays and teapots and such. After they deemed me worthy of learning to remove a dent.

    I also understand losing a bet, one time in the Army, I lost a bet and had to shave my legs...(shudder)
  15. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    So you advocate quitting something just because you can't make a big difference, but you can make a difference to many people in a small way? I may be naive, I may be in a no win situation, but to stop fighting to make that positive difference is just not who I am. Why do you think I keep coming to sites like this and posting? I learn to look at things differently, and see other views on things. Sometimes I learn something that makes a change for the better - like the gloves in a pocket issue from a couple of years ago. It was pointed out to me that it was unsanitary - I had just never thought of it that way (I had carried latex gloves in my pack and pockets in the military and as a Silversmith for so long it was simply second nature to put a couple of extra pairs in my pocket in case the pair I was wearing tore), as a result, I get gloves out of the box when I need them and use a new pair for each passenger I interact with. I also forward that to my coworkers, as a result I have seen tons of the folks I work with that change their gloves after each passenger almost like clockwork. I also forward things up to HQ when I see a different way of looking at something, I forward links to this forum all the time to try and raise some awareness at a higher level. That may never make a difference on a grand scale, but I do what I can in my sphere of influence. Just because I do not agree with every point of view here, does not mean that I can't cause some changes that might impact some of the members here in the future in a positive way.
  16. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I would leave any job in a minute if I felt what I was required to do was wrong in any way. I recognize that is a personal choice and only the individual can make the call. Knowing what I know about TSA I would not be able to work for that agency since it requires many things that are clearly in violation of the Constitution as I understand it.

    Wanting to make a difference can only go so far and I rather doubt you can do anything to change things in the front office. Below Pistole are career aparachicks who have no other purpose in life but to advance their personal selves. These people are insulated from the public and can do pretty much anything they want. There is no accountability to the citizens of this country. Not leaving tells me those who work for TSA believe they are doing nothing wrong or they are to weak act on their concerns.

    It takes a lot of personal integrity to walk away from a paying job and it is my opinion that is exactly what TSA employees should do.
    phoebepontiac likes this.
  17. I get what you're saying, and I agree, positive small change is a good thing. But in my opinion you use this as a way to justify to yourself how you can work for an organization that increasingly forces a police state on the American people. I'm glad you are friendly and "respectful" and change you gloves, but it doesn't change the fact that the very directives you follow are, for the large part, wrong. What you're doing is deck chairs on the Titanic, IMHO.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  18. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    I was pointing out your personal participation in a process in which men have their balls and butt cracks touched by you and your fellows, and women have their breasts, butts, and labias touched by your female counterparts. All for no reason, except for bad reasons, such as random selection, refusing to be strip searched (in backscatter type scanners) or not participating in BDO games such as who's your daddy and how can we violate your right to be left alone at the airport.

    I was pointing out the unbelievable nature of the statement
    given the fact that you don't have to read about this on this web site. --You have first-hand knowledge of this through your training and sufficient other corroborative stories in the news. You know, or you should know, that everyone subjected to these things considers them to be unreasonable intrusions. You know or should know how damaging this is to many of those subjected to it. So you should be able to understand why people think these behaviors so objectionable and reprehensible without having to come to TUG.

    I understand your point about every job being a mixed bag. But if my job involved touching men's scrotums in a situation where they submit only under duress and not deserving this because they did nothing to cause such touching, and I decide to keep doing this to other men, despite the destructiveness of this disrespectful behavior, then I have assented to destroying my own stature as a human being.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  19. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    The quote above was a direct reference to how I found the support of one governmental "intrusion" forcing private entities to do something they do not necessarily want to do, to remedy what many here declare is a governmental "intrusion" of a different kind is hard to resolve. I would think that the path most commonly desired if in opposition, is to remove the original "intrusion" in the first place. Adding another layer of forced rules on top of the first set or to replace the first set is kind of like shifting one degree behind the 8 ball - you are still behind the 8 ball, just in a little bit different position.

    I will disagree with you that "everyone subjected" to the searches thinks them unreasonable, the commentary available in the blogosphere and news cycle disagree with that statement as well. I hear more commentary that is positive (here at my airport) than is negative by a large margin. Of course, we are a smaller airport, and things are much more laid back here, but even a friend of mine that came through (who is not shy about telling me what he thinks... about anything) was selected for additional screening, recieved a pat down and told me he didn't understand what all the bad press was about. This was a singular case, but again, I hear much more commentary to the positive than to the negative here.

    You are entitled to your opinions on the job in general, I disagree with many of them and agree with some of them. I have policy disagreements just like you do, but again, I stay here and do what I can to make things a little better for the people that I can. We will simply have to disagree on a fundamental level about the TSA in general.
  20. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    I respect your opinions, and in some cases I agree with you, but in others, I do not.

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