Miyamae May Be Fined by TSA

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Lisa Simeone, Sep 5, 2011.

  1. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    No, Myamae is no Rosa Parks. Rosa Parks was asked to sit in the back of the conveyance each time she traveled to work. Myamae was forced to choose between irradiation or sexual assault each time she traveled to work. I'm confident that if Myamae was merely expected to rid in the back of the plane, she would have submitted gratefully.

    Some of us really don't like aggressors inside our personal space. When the memory of serious trauma heightens this perfectly healthy response to interpersonal boundary incursions, the sense of unease is acute. Myamae didn't choose to physically defend herself from her assailants, she acted on instinct like a cornered animal. Myamae wasn't a political activist. She was simply a severely traumatized woman protecting herself from further abuse.

    Rosa Parks chose not to go to the back of the bus. I think she chose rightly. Rosa Parks was a member of the NAACP and a civil rights activist. Would she and her contemporaries have submitted to being regularly sexually assaulted and/or irradiated in order to use public transportation? . Would the authorities of 1955 Montgomery Alabama have practiced such lunacy? It seems unlikely.

    The Rosa Parks vs Myamae comparisons just highlight how far we've fallen as a nation. We seriously compare being forced to choose between sexual assault or irradiation with being expected to ride in the back of a conveyance? Myamae is no Rosa Parks, and we're not 1955 Montgomery Alabama.

    It's 2011, and our Federal Government has found a form of abuse that the meekest, mildest citizens are forced to take exception to. We've fallen hard.
     
    Fisher1949, barbell, snapstoo and 4 others like this.
  2. myadvice

    myadvice Original Member

    It is unacceptable behavior in polite society. However it is extremely unrealistic to expect all passengers getting their private parts touched by an agent of the government to act like Ghandi or Rosa Parks. I am surprised more people don't react in this way.
     
  3. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    I, too, am surprised. I'm also surprised Miyamae didn't act this way. Because she didn't. The lying TSA clerk and the credulous press reported this fabricated account, and it got repeated ad nauseam. No surprise that it's being repeated yet again by Bart.
     
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  4. VH-RMD

    VH-RMD Original Member

    I think it is more telling that a diminutive woman stood up to the goons. The lack of spine in all of the other millions of Americans tells the rest of the world just how low they have sunk in fear of the unseen and unreal boogieman.

    The pond slime who perpetrate these abuses really rob all other life forms of oxygen.
     
  5. 4nsicdoc

    4nsicdoc Original Member

    I would think that you, as a self-proclaimed "expert" on every kind of law, would know that accusing someone of a criminal act when they are not even facing criminal charges, is libel per se, Disparagement ", like publicly calling someone an "idiot", while not libel per se, is actionable defamation. So you won't mind when I forward your post to her with a suggestion that she consider a "John Doe" suit, using the discovery process to strip away internet anonymity to amend under FRCP 15 or the state equivalent. , will you? "John Doe" suits are allowed in all states except Florida.
     
  6. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    False. She Pushed the clerk away because the clerk was crowding her. (wow, my android sure hosed that one up...)
     
  7. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    I don't think we should discourage free speech. I say go after the clerk who filed the exagerated charges.
     
    barbell and Lisa Simeone like this.
  8. mikemey

    mikemey Original Member

    Thank you for a morning belly laugh Bart.

    The comment cards are a fricking joke. I filled one out at EWR and never heard back from anyone about it. I filled one out at RDU and got a generic form letter.

    The TSA is one of many government agencies that are out of control. And, when enough Americans get pissed off about that, then you'll see a revolution, and your agency Bart will be the first against the wall.

    I have my pitchfork ready. I'm ready to do my part.
     
    barbell likes this.
  9. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    So you found it, then? :D
     
  10. mikemey

    mikemey Original Member

    Yep. Just gotta get find my torch. :D
     
    barbell likes this.
  11. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Miyamae did exactly that - which is why she's not facing criminal charges.

    Under a strict reading of ARS 13-411 it's justifiable to use force up to and including deadly force to prevent or halt the commission of particular crimes, and Miyamae may have been justified in not only pushing the TSA clerk away from her, but in killing her outright.

    The question is where the line is between a TSA clerk "doing their job" and crossing that line into assault, sexual assault, or kidnapping.

    Were I to serve on a jury for someone accused of violence against a TSA clerk in an Arizona courtroom, I'd have to acquit based on my understanding of ARS 13-411 and my understanding of actual TSA policy - which, as you say, does not include touching someone's genitals. Therefore, if the TSA clerk executed one of the infamous "karate-chop" procedures (probably more accurately described as a "ridge-hand," not a "karate chop") it would appear that the TSA clerk had crossed the line from "TSA procedure" into "outright sexual assault," at which point the victim is perfectly justified in using whatever force they deem necessary to stop it.
     
  12. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Would these comment cards be the same ones that many TSA employees claim are not available at the checkpoint or that require TSA to make a copy of our ID increasing the chances of identity theft greatly?

    In this particular case it really seems to be a situation where the person felt a need to defend themselves against an aggressive act by the TSA screener. I would love for this to get into the legal system .
     
  13. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    Speech by Joseph Goebbels on 9 January 1928: "If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth."
     
  14. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    Miyamae is a hero(ine) and this just smacks of more and more desperation by TSA to try to get people to "Shut up and submit, citizens!" I can't wait for this to turn into a big, fat precedent-setting loss for TSA and subsequent free-for-all of passengers laughing in overpaid, undereducated, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing TSOs' faces at airport checkpoints. "No you can't jack me off as a condition of getting on my plane, I'm leaving! What're you gonna do, FINE ME? I'm SOOOO SCAAAAARED!" Another nail in the coffin.

    Using comment cards is both a good and a bad idea. The more complaints that TSA officially has on file, the worse it'll be when they're caught in a lie about how many they receive. However, Bart is clearly only speaking out of CYA self-interest. He and all other TSA representatives want people lodging their complaints through TSA-controlled channels for the specific reason that those channels are TSA-controlled. Dominate and control, dominate and control. So fill out the comment cards, but refuse to give up personal info and make sure to also follow up with OIG, GAO, your elected officials, and anyone else you can get ahold of (media contacts, preferably, as that's always good for negative PR to hurt TSA). Make sure that ignoring your complaint is not a reasonable option. Make sure that any response other than meek apologies and begging for forgiveness whilst admitting absolute wrongdoing will be met by absolute PR disaster.

    Point is this - TSA wants control, so we have to take it away from them. And when they try to take it back, we have to take away their jobs and everything they have. The message must be sent that "TSA exists to submit and serve. Any arrogance will result in unemployment and/or imprisonment. Any claim of authority will result in unemployment and/or imprisonment. Any demands for public compliance will result in unemployment and/or imprisonment. This is not negotiable. This is immutable. If TSOs do not like this newfound position of servitude and disenfranchisement, then they must resign or alter their mentality to accept it. There is no third option. There will never be a third option. TSA exists to submit, suffer, and sacrifice itself and its employees on the altar of public whim. We owe you no explanation as to why and we owe you no compassion or sympathy when your lives become utterly miserable. You once said to us 'Don't like it? Don't fly.' We say to you now, 'Don't like it? Don't work for the TSA.'" To borrow a line from a popular computer game, "You exist because we allow it. You will end because we demand it. This exchange is over."
     
    Elizabeth Conley and Caradoc like this.
  15. RB

    RB Founding Member

    The big problem in complaining to TSA is that TSA investigates itself.

    I filed a complaint about an incident at DFW. I was later told that the TSM responsible for that checkpoint asked the screener if anything happened, was told no, so end of investigation. That is the quality of TSA complaint investigations.

    The only reasonable recourse is to file all complaints with DHS OIG.
     
    barbell likes this.
  16. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    Well said.
     
  17. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    That's probably the best recourse. The C/P cards go straight in the trash so if TSA complaints are up 40% since last year, what would this be if the cards were actually sent through? As with any agency, the OIG complaints still show up in their stats.

    In any customer service issue, it usually pays to complain loud and long in as many venues as possible.
     
  18. MaximumSisu

    MaximumSisu Requiescat in Pace

    DHS OIG acts on very few complaints, refers most back to TSA. A statistic is generated, but little action.
     
  19. RB

    RB Founding Member

    If so then complaining has little effect on TSA and might land a person on some secret watch list. America, land of the free!
     
    Lisa Simeone and Cartoon Peril like this.
  20. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    I doubt TSA is that efficient.
     
    Lisa Simeone likes this.

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