Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by RB, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. RB

    RB Founding Member

  2. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    Call me a cynic but I can't help believe that Pistole is lying again or that these "improvements" will end up making things even worse for travelers. So on top of harassing passengers at the checkpoint they will extend this practice to all of the public areas. Expect to hear reports of passengers being approached in restrooms and at baggage claim.
    barbell and Lisa Simeone like this.
  3. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    Yep. I too anticipate being forced to feign tolerance for TSA thuglets when importuned in all sorts of previously benign places.
    barbell and Lisa Simeone like this.
  4. FetePerfection

    FetePerfection Founding Member Coach

    Major difference here is BDO's in Israel are highly educated, intelligent and expertly trained - TSA on the other hand, well we all know what they are.
    barbell and Lisa Simeone like this.
  5. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Get ready for more harassment, more bullying, more abuse, more assaults. And more arrests.
    Fisher1949 likes this.
  6. VH-RMD

    VH-RMD Original Member

    BDO "hello, there"
    PAX 'fabulous! This airport has porter service! Just take my bags over there will you, there's a good chap'
  7. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Agreed. My first thought on this was that they were going to have to hire outside the agency and have folks trained outside the agency. There is simply not the mental capacity and knowledge or experience in-house for this. So if that is NOT the case, then we can only expect a useless exercise that is also invasive. The main take-away is that what this appears intended to do is give the BDOs currently roaming around airports some teeth. Immensely more pressure on you to cooperate.

    Additionally invasive measures like this, if not accompanied by a decrease in the currently physically invasive procedures, will just stir up the sh*tstorm once again as they will be perceived as a ratcheting up, additive, and it will be resented. If these are accompanied by less invasive physical procedures---no strip searches, no hand slides all over your body including private areas, then it has some chance to be accepted and cooperated with.

    assuming of course, TSA does this new thing professionally, which is not a smart assumption to make.
  8. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    They will not do it smartly, they will not do it professionally, they will not do it sensibly. It is a recipe for more abuse.
  9. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    And re Israel, yes, Israeli security is watching you even before you enter the airport, and then constantly from that point on, while you're walking towards the checkpoint, when you're waiting, then questioning you and watching your reactions. And they have sealed-off areas to contain an explosion should one ever occur.

    But a few caveats:

    They rely heavily on racial and ethnic profiling. If you're with an American tour group, you'll be quickly ushered through. If you're the "wrong" racial or ethnic type, you'll be grilled. And if you're a peace activist -- forget it; you'll be taken to a back room and strip-searched. Just ask Holocaust survivor Hedy Epstein.

    And though they've virtually eliminated terrorism on airplanes, they have accepted its risk elsewhere in the country -- buses, cafes, marketplaces. Bombs still go off there. There's no such thing as 100% security, anywhere. I know regular TUG members already know this, just reiterating it for others who aren't members and might be reading the forums.
  10. mikemey

    mikemey Original Member

    They can't make me answer any questions, and I'll refuse to answer anything they try to make me tell them, or I'll sputter nonesense.

    "Go SPOT someone else"
  11. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Fisher1949 likes this.
  12. VH-RMD

    VH-RMD Original Member

    your country is seriously spending money on those?
  13. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Yep. Our tax dollars at work!

    Endless wars abroad, tens of thousands of people out of work, as many forced out of their homes, tent cities on the outskirts of towns, people dying from lack of medical care (none of which make the big splashy headlines of an airplane going down, or a chef getting "caught" with knives in his luggage), yet we have plenty of money for the National Security State. It is, in fact, the only growing sector of the economy. Lockheed Martin just got a new $72 million contract for the new scanners.
  14. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Your country will follow shortly -- monkey see, monkey do. :D

    On the surface, this is what the BDO's should be doing. Unfortunately, lack of training and lack of hiring standards (retarded monkeys can only learn a few limited tricks) will not produce the desired results. For example, the orangutan who tried to pick a fight with me at STL will now be free to roam the airport seeking out travelers to harass.

    I say this with all due respect and apologies to real monkeys everywhere. :)
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  15. FetePerfection

    FetePerfection Founding Member Coach

    Unfortunately our united nanny states of america cannot and will not accept this fact. People here want guarantees of safety, no matter the cost and that's just pathetic.

    Btw, I'd like to thank the tort lawyers for doing an excellent job of shifting responsibility for ones actions to whomever has the deepest pockets and helping create our zero-acceptable-risk-intolerence. But that's another rant.
  16. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Given that the elderly woman who was horribly burned -- you have to see the pictures to believe them -- was demonized by the corporation that harmed her (and 700 others) and by the media, akin to what's going on now with TSA victims being demonized, I'm afraid I can't get on board with blaming tort lawyers. Yes, there are dishonest people in the world. There always have been and there always will be. That doesn't mean lots of other people aren't genuinely harmed and deserving of redress. This woman was lucky she lived. And her injuries so weakened her, she didn't for very long afterwards.
  17. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Security theater? More like a paper mock-up of a security façade:

  18. FetePerfection

    FetePerfection Founding Member Coach

    Agree there are catastrophic injuries that are deserving of compensation, however the legal system for the past 30+ years has IMO contributed to the overall sense many American's have that their safety and security should be guaranteed and that the "victim" bears no responsibility for his actions. Sorry I'm way off topic but I don't think TSA is entirely to blame. When media became entertainment, also about 30+ years ago, they too helped create the society we currently have.
  19. N965VJ

    N965VJ Original Member

    Plus, we don't have to tip government employees. :D
  20. BillForster

    BillForster Original Member

    I think the BDO antagonize PAX.

    Actual conversation I have overheard between a BDO and a passenger:

    BDO: How do you feel about flying?
    PAX: What do you mean?
    BDO: What's making you so angry?
    PAX: I'm not angry.
    BDO: Then why are you unwilling to talk to me?
    PAX: I am talking to you.
    BDO: Tell me wants going on.
    PAX: I don't know what's going on.
    BDO: Why do feel so confussed?

    The number one strategy they use is, they never ask you a yes or no question. They just try to get you to constantly talk. Basically they try to confuse you into blurting out your true sinister intentions.

    BDOs get paid better and its easy to get the promotion from TSO. Some of the dumbest and/or craziest people I have met at the TSA are now BDOs. They spend most of the day walking around "watching people" or hanging out in break rooms and drinking coffee, often text messaging or just plain leaving the airport. Their supervisors are on the other end of a radio. Actually a lot of them ARE supervisors.

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