New Hampshire takes step to affirm travelers’ dignity

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Lisa Simeone, Jan 8, 2012.

  1. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    A new post at TSA News:

    New Hampshire takes step to affirm travelers’ dignity
    Mandatory reporting of incidents between travelers and TSA -- not only at airports but everywhere -- intervention of LEOs, maintenance of database of incidents reported, photography/recording of all incidents always allowed no matter what, consequences if LEOs wimp out.
  2. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    Love it:

    That seems pretty broad, and to my mind allows for complaints regarded to scope and grope, as well...
  3. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    It is, as Wendy writes, a great first step, even though we can imagine how the clerks will drag their feet, and make people wait, and claim a law enforcement officer is just taking long to get there, etc. But the mere existence of this law, the fact that it was passed by the NH House, says to the TSA: "we're on to you, and you can't keep getting away with this (expletive deleted)."
  4. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    In general I like it.

    (2) Maintenance of a “Citizens Complaints Against TSA Searches” electronic database, with an incident retention requirement of 5 years. These are public records, and may be archived after 5 years but not destroyed.

    This is good because the records are FOIA-able.

    (4) If the law enforcement officer does not enforce the recording provisions stated in (3) above, that law enforcement officer may be guilty of “official oppression.”

    "Official oppression"? :confused: Seems weak.

    3) The clear mandate that every screening incident may be recorded, via video, audio, or both, by the person being screened or by a third party designee, without exception.

    I'd like it more if the wording was "incident will be recorded" instead of may be recorded, and I'd like it if the recording was done by a third party designee. That way the person who is being screened can concentrate on being screened, watching their stuff, etc. and not worrying that some TSA thug is blocking the recording.

    I'm just being picky of course. I think this is a great step.
    Lisa Simeone and nachtnebel like this.
  5. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    This is a nice step. Do you know anything about the chances of this bill being signed? It passed by not a huge margin in the house.
    Sunny Goth likes this.
  6. Leave no trace

    Leave no trace Original Member

    Hmm, some light is starting to shine on the roaches...
    Lisa Simeone and Sunny Goth like this.
  7. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Wendy Thomson of Freedom to Travel USA keeps up with all this stuff. You can get on the mailing list:
  8. jtodd

    jtodd Original Member

    I appreciate what they are trying to do, really I do, but they're creating a law telling law enforcement and the TSA to quit breaking the law and follow laws/rules already in place. :confused:

    How about using and following the laws that are already in place to penalize and attack the TSA and any law law enforcement officials that don't observe them. I think they would be amazed at how quickly some things would start moving in the legal system and in Washington if they did this.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  9. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    We have seen over and over again that what the TSA most fears is the light of day. This law doesn't even permit the TSA thugs to prevent recordings of events in "private rooms." It seems to me that if a citizen is herded toward a private room the citizen can demand LEO escort and/or insist on a recording. The citizen may or may not get the LEO, depending on availability, but the citizen will have many new protections.

    One of those protections is a public record of the event. Note that it's the citizen's name that is redacted from the record, not the screener's. This should lead to an ability to figure out who these "bad apples" are. This record of past screener malfeasance could be used to aid a TSA victim in his/her legal defense, a civil case or even a criminal case against a TSA repeat offender.

    If this legislation passes then it will probably sweep the nation.

    I'm in favor of this legislation, and any legislation that permits citizens to record the behavior of public officials. I think the light of day could sharply curtail government abuse of citizens.
    Lisa Simeone and Sunny Goth like this.
  10. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

  11. N965VJ

    N965VJ Original Member

    Excellent! :)^

    Perhaps this is for recording being done by the person going through the process.

    "Here, officer*, is my phone that is now recording video. Just point it at me."

    *the LEO, not the screener ;)
  12. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    Agencies tend to believe that it's in their best interests to suppress evidence their employees have abused citizens. I think the authorities who believe this are gravely mistaken. The type of government abuse that's sweeping the nation right now is alienating practically every American citizen. It's creating an environment where citizens simply don't trust or like their government employees.

    We're buying more hand-guns than ever before. We're increasingly eager to whip out our cell phones to record police behavior, and we're increasingly eager to document official malfeasance. (Google Antonio Buehler and you'll see what I mean.)

    Agencies would do well to take reports their employees are abusing citizens very seriously, and investigate immediately. The only way to maintain a reputation for integrity is to be honest about these things and hold dishonest and/or abusive employees responsible for their actions. It is devastating to an organization's effectiveness when no one trusts them.
    nachtnebel likes this.
  13. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    A lot of this is not due to government being any worse than it was in the past but to changing technologies that facilitate what we have long needed to do.

    Until 15 years ago, the only way for most people to document official malfeasance was pen & paper, and then you had to find a publisher (paper, magazine, book).

    Now we have the internet, where any idiot can become a blogger. (takes bow)

    Videocams were bulky and recording video of any decent length required tape.

    Cheaper static RAM memories and miniaturization have changed all that. The equipment available today is orders of magnitude smaller and cheaper than what was available only five years ago. People are whipping out their "cell phone to record police behavior" because it is now possible to do so. My first cell phone (2005) did not have that capability.

    If you wanted to check out a bad cop from Podunk 20 years ago, good luck. Today you just Google "+badcopfirstname +badcoplastname" +podunk, and the information is at your fingertips.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  14. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    what is flying off the shelves is AR-15s.
  15. jtodd

    jtodd Original Member

    By the way, how much does 1 run? I've missed shooting since I got out and wouldn't mind picking one up.
  16. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    Depends if you want a crappy bushmaster or a good solid weapon (chrome lined 1n7 twist barrel, properly staked gas key, etc) . The low end of my threshold is the Colt 6920 below that level to many compromises IMHO. You can get a colt LE6920 (which uses a carbine length gas system) for just under a grand through a number of places (buds, CTD, etc) . Now if you want to step up to some really good AR look up Daniel Defense, LRWC, Noveske, Bravo Company Machine those start in the $1200 and go up from there.

    I have a LE6920 in the safe(no its not for sale), and currently looking at a Daniel Defense for my next one, but patriot ordnance factory has my eye for a 7.62 AR platform. Before I get anymore hand guns or rifles need to stock up on ammo, brass, bullets and reloading dies as prices are on the move up again, because of the BS Obummer is pulling. Plus USPSA & IDPA competition season is starting soon, and each of those events eats a 1000 rounds easy.

    ARs are legos for adults, the options are endless.
  17. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Smith and Wesson have the M&P-15 in a variety of configs, made by Stagg for them. Bass Pro shops has 'em for under 6, and you could probably do better; those are the "sporter" version with no dust cover or forward assist. probably looking at 8 or 9 for the better configs. Bushmaster is good, mine shoots 3/4" groups at 100 yds. But my M&P is LOT more fun to shoot, due to its light weight and feel. HWS is just super on that, very little wobble on the hold. And you can buy 'em in Kali, as they have a bullet button for the mag release.
  18. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    Jtodd - if you want to build one or even buy one already assembled look at this thread on Its a comprehensive run down of the good, bad and ugly of ARs. The creator of that thread is LEO/SWAT from Houston and was a good resource when i was looking at getting my first AR 2.5 years ago. It covers all the bases.
  19. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    here's a cool alternative:
    I fear we have hijacked this thread...

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