Newsweek: Should TSA Patdowns be Outlawed?

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by CelticWhisper, Jun 8, 2011.

  1. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    A bit old but it's still relevant and actually has a non-AFS slant.

    Posted this comment in response:

    "No amount of safety, no measure of security, NO NUMBER OF LIVES SAVED is worth sacrificing the founding principles of our nation.

    This is (ostensibly still) the land of the free, not the land of the safe. Freedom means risk and 235 years ago, some people decided that given the choice between living safe lives of submission to authority, or taking their lives in their hands and being free, they would rather have liberty at the expense of personal risk.

    Yes, if TSA stops doing what it is doing, planes may be blown up. Maybe we'll have another 9/11. Maybe we'll have 911 more 9/11s. It will be sad, people will be hurting and mourning. But that is the price we pay for liberty. When people say "freedom isn't free," that's where that slogan comes from. When Thomas Jefferson said "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants," it was not intended as some sort of anarchist screed. He was saying that sometimes, in order for there to be freedom for all, good people must stand against oppressors and, sometimes, sacrifice themselves in order to do so.

    And for godsakes, nobody is even asking any American patriot to fall on their sword. What we're talking about is the people standing up and saying "Enough is enough" to the TSA. Saying "If we have to choose between being less safe in the air and enduring the wholesale sexual assault that you neander-thugs perpetrate against us every day at terminals across the nation, then we'll keep our 4th-Amendment rights and take our chances. Now get the (expletive deleted) out of our airports."

    Anyone who values safety over liberty is not espousing American principles and, in point of fact, this can be confirmed via the words of Benjamin Franklin himself. It's been quoted a thousand times before but it rings absolutely true each and every last time. "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

    America. Land of the free. Not "Land of the free, except in airports or when we're really really scared, void where prohibited, some restrictions may apply.""
    mikemey and DeafBlonde like this.
  2. mozgytog

    mozgytog Founding Member

    That is exactly how I see it. I don't understand people who think it's OK to be inside a cage because it's safe in there. You're still in a cage!
    DeafBlonde likes this.
  3. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    An AFSer replied after me. Anyone wanna rebut it with me?
  4. mozgytog

    mozgytog Founding Member

    I'm not a subscriber.
  5. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    Neither am I - just need to supply a username and (not displayed) E-mail address to go with the comment.
  6. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    Just posted this:

    barbell likes this.
  7. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    With regard to the title of the article, the TSA patdowns are outlawed since they are inherently unconstitutional. We are just waiting for the courts to enforce that.
    mikemey, DeafBlonde and barbell like this.
  8. AngryMiller

    AngryMiller Original Member

    They far exceeded the limited scope of administrative searches years ago.
    barbell likes this.
  9. bdschobel

    bdschobel Original Member

    They certainly have illustrated the principle that you can reach a destination by 10 small steps much more easily than with one big step. If anyone had told us back in 2001 that we'd be enduring virtual strip searches, pat-down groping, liquid bans and all the other nonsense, nobody would have believed it. But using their incremental approach, TSA has gotten there. Unless we stop them, they'll keep going down that road, one small step at a time.

    FetePerfection, Mike, mikemey and 3 others like this.
  10. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    Welcome to the Underground, bdschobel!

    What amazes me is when one frames the argument of if you had told us 10 years ago we'd be strip searching people, what's next? cavity searches? People become incredulous and don't want to buy it. I think the vast majority of people ignore what's going on because they can't fathom that it's actually happening.

    What I can't comprehend is how, HOW. HOW is a strip search and/or genital grope considered reasonable? There are far more effective ways to find non-metallic threats than imaging. Ask any doctor, it's not the cancer you find on an x-ray, but the many, many lesions that you don't that cause the most trouble. TSA has created such a huge haystack that the entire screening process is immediately and currently ineffective. By that very definition it is unreasonable. And yet they continue down the same path.
  11. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Really hits the nail on the head. In some cases (e.g. primary screening with Nudo-O-Scopes) they've even told us they weren't going to do something & then done exactly that!

    Incrementalism can work both ways. We can't take on TSA head-on & win. We're just not large enough and likely never will be. However, we can contribute towards educating and motivating people. Kate Hanni got the tarmac limitations pushed through by expertly working the news media -- I think we need to learn to do the same. We will win this one grope, one press release, one media blurb at a time. A better-funded group would rely on lobbying; engaging the media is well within our budget if we do it right.

    The other thing people need a is realistic goal. Eliminating TSA isn't realistic. It just isn't going to happen. Transforming & limiting TSA step by step is achievable.

    More later, probably in the Policies, Politics & Political Action forum where a more general long-term discussion would be appropriate.
    FetePerfection and DeafBlonde like this.
  12. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

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