No shoes off and new procedures for 12 and under coming soon

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Spence1097, Sep 13, 2011.

  1. Spence1097

    Spence1097 Original Member

  2. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    I wonder how long it will take the screeners to get the message the the SOP has changed.......:rolleyes:
    barbell likes this.
  3. Spence1097

    Spence1097 Original Member

    That's easy, for the majority of them it will never change
    FetePerfection and Doober like this.
  4. Haven't these changes been "coming soon" for like six, eight months?
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  5. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Who needs a SOP when you make it up as you go? You do know that procedures differ by airport, right? Uncertainty is part of our security.
    mikemey and Lisa Simeone like this.
  6. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    This is a bad idea:

    After all, 12 year olds can be terrorists...


    Oh, and :rolleyes:.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  7. rockon

    rockon Original Member

    Y'all need to read the fine print. This is TSA, after all.

    Children under 18 are not required to provide government-issued photo ID at the checkpoint.

    Children under 12 may be allowed to keep their shoes on if they provide government-issued photo ID at the checkpoint.

    This is necessary to ensure that the terrorists don't take advantage of this relaxed rule by using young-looking 13-year-old terrorists to smuggle shoe bombs past security.
  8. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

  9. Leave no trace

    Leave no trace Original Member

    SOP = Self Outlined Procedure.
    Mike and Lisa Simeone like this.
  10. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    What child under 12 has government issued ID? Will TSA be too stupid to tell the difference between a 4 year old and a 13 year old without a government issued ID? And what makes 13 year-olds fair game for the grope anyway?
  11. rockon

    rockon Original Member

    Well, you know 'they' hate us because we used to be able to travel freely in our own country. 'They' will stop at nothing, including pretending a savvy, experienced 14-year-old terrorist is only 11 years/11 months old. We can't have that, you know.
  12. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    I'm beginning to think, more and more, that the "they" who hate us for our freedoms infest the offices of DHS.
    Lisa Simeone, jtodd and rockon like this.
  13. You know what -- my very young kids have passports so we can drive through Canada if we need to. But what do you want to bet TSA gets all suspicious if I show their passports? Because what children under 12 have passports?

    It's like a zen riddle.
    barbell likes this.
  14. Doober

    Doober Original Member

  15. rockon

    rockon Original Member


    IMHO, there's a big difference between fewer patdowns for kids and less intrusive patdowns for kids.

    And aside from privacy and radiation concerns, why is it OK for kids to make multiple attempts to 'clear' the NoS and it is not OK for adults? TSA has already told us it's a quick process, and I've seen TSOs post that they can do a full-body grope in well under 2 minutes.

    Not that we're likely to ever see a patdown again, it's a grope/rub/grip/slide - it certainly isn't a patdown.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  16. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    I realize that it's fashionable to gripe about TSA policy in here, but in the event anyone is interested in a different perspective: the likelihood of anyone being patted down is low. It does not happen as often as some in here suggest. It is a rare event. For children, it is even more rare. With this new policy, the likelihood of a child being patted down is going to be very remote.

    You have to either request that your child be patted down or just refuse to remove the items (other than shoes) that are causing the WTMD to alarm. Kids can keep their shoes on.

    You asked for it. You got it. You're still bitching about it.

    Some folks are never pleased.
  17. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    We'll be pleased when we call 1-866-289-9673, and the nice lady that answers says, "We're sorry, the number you have dialed is no longer in service. No further information is available for 866-289-9673."
  18. NotaCriminal

    NotaCriminal Original Member

    Perhaps I am not pleased because frankly, my law of averages in my travels since September 2010 are completely different than your statement. 4 flights (8 security transits) and I was patted down 5 times. My record of 63% chance of being touched by a government employee is more than a strong likelihood. It does happen to me as often as I've read. I just don't believe this kind of commentary from government officials any longer. It's not low likelihood at all. Nor am I crazy or imagining it (so you can withhold your mental health treatment commentary you spouted yesterday) and I'm not lying about it, yet government employees will not shut up about the the likelihood of a pat down being low. It simply isn't true.

    Perhaps it will decrease the odds for children, but frankly, when they say that there will still be random searches to maintain unpredictability, I do not have much to support that things will improve for the kids, at least.

    Hmmm. I'm disagreeing with a government player against a current policy. Someone needs to report me to Attack Watch, I think. Thanks!
  19. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Bart writes:
    Not to cloud the discussion with actual facts and figures, facts and figures which come directly from the TSA itself, by the way, but this "rare" event equals 60,000 people a day. This is the TSA speaking, not me. 2 million air travelers a day in the U.S. According to TSA, 3% of them get groped. That's 60,000 a day. Assuming that "only" 10% of them get groped abusively (grotesquely, unbelievably low number, as we know from Zimbardo, Milgram, and Asch, but we'll go with it), that still means 6,000 a day.

    So Bart is saying that it's perfectly okay that 6,000 passengers a day are abused. Because it's such a "rare" event.

    Hey, "as long as it isn't me!"
    barbell and Cartoon Peril like this.
  20. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    Although I don't fly, I've been in a few airports in the last months, watching checkpoints. Except for very small ABE, there was always a passenger to be seen being patted down.

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