NY Times: With Hair Pat-Downs, Complaints of Racial Bias

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Mike, Aug 16, 2011.

  1. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Looks like they spent $17 million to buy 35 of the damn things back in September 2007. At over $500,000, one would think a bit of training would be in order:
    And a traveller here reports a ridiculous experiance of having to straddle the machine for multiple xrays of her artificial leg, and then having to explain to the TSOs what they were seeing.
    Somewhere (and I can't find it out, drat!) I saw a report of an amputee whom they forced to stand on overturned yellow plastic milk carton racks to xray the artificial leg. Can you believe it?
    And all this without any radiologic training, dosimeters, or shielding.
  2. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Gak! I think you misread the cost, it was 1.7 mil! That brings the cost down to about $50k or so each, not great, but not as exhorbitant as $500k each.

    35 is enough to see what kind of usage metrics you are going to get, and the stated dosage is pretty low to the person. I was not there for those situations, but if they are as printed, then that is a shameful situation all the way around. I can't possibly imagine a situation where it would be ok for a passenger to stand on milk cartons to use a piece of equipment, the safety rules about being on the boxes in the first place would prevent it. I hope these folks have filed complaints about these situations, and if they have not and you are in contact with them, please ask them to file the complaints.
    Cartoon Peril likes this.
  3. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Emphasis added -- this is the scariest part. You would think that after the fluoroscope, they would know better. Obviously not the TSA.
    barbell likes this.
  4. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Rugape likes this.
  5. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    If the problem were simply some bad people in charge plotting these things, it would be easier to deal with. Unfortunately, this is not where the problem is. The problem is in the large percentage of people in the country who see nothing wrong with the scenarios you mentioned, that have no knowledge or affection for the Constitution, who have no knowledge of the history of this country, and who will be the first in line to obey whatever is proposed to them by someone in authority, especially if the cost falls on someone else. The problem is that a large percentage of the people are corrupt, ignorant, lazy, and selfish. The Congress is committing fiscal and monetary suicide not because they are evil, necessarily, but because they have to listen to the broad mass of voters who don't want to give *anything* up. They will only let go when necessity pries off their grip.

    If the TSA had tried to do twenty years ago what it is doing in the recent past up to currently, (and I give them credit in advance for slowly changing now), quite frankly, there would have been and should have been blood. Because that is the natural, honest, and just reaction to what they tried to pull. But because so many citizens have gone bad, it has taken a bit longer for resistance to spread. If the TSA is in fact changing their ways, it is because of people like Sharon Cissna, the Alaskan legislature, the Texas legislature, and the ongoing actions in state legislatures across the country. At long last many more are waking up.
    barbell, DeafBlonde and Wimpie like this.
  6. Pesky Monkey

    Pesky Monkey Original Member

    The whole ATR thing is a red herring. The machines are inherently incapable of differentiating a bomb from a boarding pass. It doesn't matter who or what is interpreting the image. It's time to trash this (expletive deleted) and either go back to WTMD's only or find something that actually works.
    Wimpie, barbell and KrazyKat like this.
  7. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    What would be the point? They'd just have to repeatedly retrain them anyway..,
    Cartoon Peril likes this.
  8. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Note that they cost $50,000 each (I misread the numbers). Even so, still need some training.
  9. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    The cost of the devices is irrelevant - "training" TSA employees is a waste of time and money, as evidenced by the sheer volume of "retraining" required for TSA employees to deal with stupidly simple things like NEXUS cards and lying to the public about procedures.

    The TSA is irredeemable, and needs to be defunded and dismantled, with security responsibilities returned to 9/10 standards in the private sector.
  10. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    The author of this article, Michelle Deal-Zimmerman, is a longtime TSA apologist. I'm surprised she wrote this, though she does, of course, go on to say how she realizes the TSA is just trying to do a good job, blah blah blah.
  11. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    What are the chances that the TSA has some of these people, journalists-apologists, on their payroll?
    barbell likes this.
  12. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Certainly possible as there have been a variety of "journalists" receiving government payola. However I think there's no need for that here, as there will always be a certain cadre of people who will write what TSA wishes for free.
  13. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    The AIT works, it is just imperfect, like everything else out there. With an individual interpreting the image, it seems there is a bit more leeway to know what is actually considered a threat item, and what is something unknown. The ATR does not give that leeway, it alarms on anomolies and triggers further screening for the individual. The AIT (with or without ATR) still gives a better chance of finding non-metallic threats than the WTMD and visual observation.
  14. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

  15. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

  16. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    According to the Germans, it's not more than 30% effective. The effectiveness/cost trade-off (not to mention privacy and health issues) make the AIT a non-starter for me. They never should have been deployed as widely as they have, especially without real data concerning the health issues (and not the lies passed off by Bullcrap Bob and the rest of the TSA cheerleaders.)
  17. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    TSA has not determined the same thing at this point (make what you will of that). I am a big fan of Germany and their folks, I spent quite a bit of time in their country when I was young. They made the decision to discontinue using them, and gave their reasoning, at this point, TSA still finds the AIT machines as a useful tool for clearing passengers. That may change in the future, but with the introduction of the ATR software, I don't see the AIT going anywhere at this point. Maybe in the future, but not right now.
  18. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    The TSA also thinks that forcing the elderly to remove their incontinence undergarments, groping children, shielding their personnel from investigation, and hiring screeners from ads on pizza boxes and gas pumps are "useful."

    The only reason the TSA thinks AIT is useful is because the people signing the contracts are getting kickbacks. I don't know why they still support the other items I've mentioned.
    barbell likes this.
  19. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Not to mention the unknown amounts of radiation exposure from the Backscatter cancer boxes.
    barbell likes this.
  20. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    I mentioned that as "health issues" in my earlier post.

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