NYPD, the CIA and possible violations of the Constitution

Discussion in 'Security' started by Doober, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    How many people do look a stranger in the eye when talking to them? I certainly don't make eye contact with people I don't know. I don't know you, I have no intention of getting to know you and therefore I'm not going to look at your eyes and lead you to believe that this "conversation" has any meaning to me whatsoever.

    However, if I ever were "BDOd" in an airport, I might change my SOP to look the dolt in the eye and say "go interrogate somebody else."
     
  2. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    I can't subscribe to your opinion of Ms. Napolitano, just like anyone else that has or may hold her position, I will agree with some of the decisions they make, and disagree with others. Do you have links to the published emails and internals?

    I agree 100%, a loonie is a loonie regardless of race, job or ethnicity. People from all walks of life snap and kill other folks simply because they are a loonie or broken. It is terrible, especially to those it impacts in some way, but it is not terrorism.

    The violent or intimidating acts of organized or determined people (or both) that hate/disagree with our country in principle, or our form of government, or the way we are doing things in general is terrorism. It can be a small scale, or a large scale, and those are what we are focused on intel wise. There are folks of all colors, kinds and personalities that wish to do harm to this country in any number of ways, and finding them and preventing or catching them afterwards is a priority.
     
  3. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    It is nice to see someone else remember John Brown, the League of Gileadites, bleeding Kansas... My daughter doesn't even know who John Brown was, or the larger role he played in moving the nation towards civil war. Definitely falls under the heading of terrorism, but also with what is considered a noble goal.
     
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  4. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Your can support Nappy all you want but she should be locked up! She is a danger to the United States and freedom. On top of that she refuses to enforce existing immigration laws or take any action to protect Americans along our southern border. She is in violation of her Oath to Protect and Defend the Constitution of the United States. I think you know what that makes her!

    Here's a few of links, google is your friend.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/15/homeland-security-memo-right-wing-radicals

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123992665198727459.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/14/homeland-security-report_n_186834.html
     
  5. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Yep, old John Brown completely fits the model, right down to the religious aspect as well. Part of the problem with all terrorism is that no matter what, there's always somebody somewhere who thinks it's for a good cause. Hence, the idea of a "war on terrorism" just makes no sense so long as this mentality exists. You might as well declare a war on weather.
     
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  6. RB

    RB Founding Member

    DHS? Give them a chance!
     
  7. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Go "spot" somebody else. :D
     
  8. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
    Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
    Then they came for me
, and there was no one left to speak out for me.
    -Martin Niemöller
     
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  9. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    There is a corollary between the 80s and now, with the large influx of troops leaving units that saw combat and having a set of choices ahead of them (same as we all had when we left military service). Some that liked the action and/or were good at it, will be recruited by legal (and sometimes, not so legal) merc styled units or security groups. Some that are broken will come back home and never find a niche and wind up homeless like a larger percentage than should be of veterans do. Some will come home and lead productive and relatively happy lives and neveer think about what happened in their military time. Some will come home and join left field loonie brigades and teach other loonies how to do a better job at acting like they are military. Some will come home and lead prodcutive lives interrupted by bouts with depression and fear of what happened and what they saw. The report simply iterated that there is a comparison and a possible threat, not that there is a singluar focus on veterans or caucasians. Am I happy that this was put out to the public? Nope, simply because this is what happens - a report indicates that conditions are similar to a previous time when there was an uptick in fringe loonie activity, and someone sees an email or distillation of the report and it gets blown out of proportion. Based on what I have seen since then and even previous to then, there is no serious focus on a specific group of people, merely a focus on the folks that wiggle like the fish they are after. That is how I see it based on my experiences, and I also understand how it can appear to someone that doesn't see everything that I do. DHS has not declared war on caucasians, military members, former military members orany other subset of people, that report simply gave a "keep your eyes out for this because it has happened before".

    There is actually a higher statistical probability that more of the kids coming back now will associate with fringe groups because there are more kids going through combat now. Going from shooting at people to asking folks if they want fries with that is never going to be easy. Add to that the fact that, these kids coming home now are coming back to a harder economic clime than the kids that jumped during the 80s and 90s, and it will be harder for some of them to find gainful employment. Add also to that, the fact that cults and militias function in almost identical ways in finding folks that are castoffs or troubled and giving them a focus, or a new mission, and *some* of those kids are going to fall into their clutches.

    Oh, and yes, google is our friend!;)
     
  10. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Returning troops from war and reintegrating them into civil society has always been a challenge for any nation. Failure to do so properly can be a disaster, a good example being the Bonus Marchers.
     
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  11. RB

    RB Founding Member

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  12. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Most of what is in that report is true and simply for informational and awareness purposes. There are left wing fringe loonies that are in the opposite end of the spectrum with similar plans and statements. This report is like any number of other reports on intel threat vectors that stand to gain sympathizers from the military or other sources. I understand that it can seem like the government is singling out a specific group (in this case, right wing caucasians - that are fringe loonies as well), but they generate hundreds if not thousands of these types of reports yearly - that is what much of the intel groups do, examine where the next threats may come from and try to make other branches of the government aware of them. This one got more political play because there is a "left of center" majority in the government at many levels and the first president that is African American. To someone like you or me, it probably makes little difference what race or ethnicity the sitting president is, we argue based on our agreement or non-agreement with the policies that are generated.

    To a fringe group that is pro white power and focused on the fact that the president is:
    1) a non-white
    2) African American
    3) not one of "them"

    is enough to give them (in their minds) reason to step up their recruitment efforts to try and turn that tide of "tolerance" and social unity. As discussed earlier, it is already hard for military members to adjust to "regular" life after being in combat (or to a lesser degree, the military in general), and these groups (all of the fringe loonies and cults) make a special effort to make them feel more welcome and a part of a "new mission" or focus in life - at a time when some of these kids are most vulnerable. I think that we as a nation do not do enough to help these kids integrate back into society. We are light years better than we were after Vietnam, but we are not doing nearly enough to get them acclimated back into society or giving them the help that they need to simply cope with life... Sorry, jumped up on my soapbox (steps down), back to your regularly scheduled discussion.
     
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