One Nation, Under Guard - piecing together the big picture

Discussion in 'Civil Rights & Privacy' started by Sunny Goth, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    I saw this post this morning on TechDirt, a blog I like to visit.

    One Nation, Under Guard

    It's a good piece, piecing together the ramifications of the NDAA, for-profit prisons, mandatory sentences, zero-tolerance policies, the war on drugs, immigration policies, and soaring incarceration rates.
     
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  2. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Thank you for posting this, Sunny. I sent it to my entire mailing list.
     
  3. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Too many good excerpts to quote. Here's one (apologies, as always, for mismatched fonts):
     
  4. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    But this is the best one:
     
  5. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    Disgusting.

    What more can one say? We need to lock up people so we can all feel safer? What a bunch of bedwetting pansies we Americans have become.
     
  6. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    It's precisely how fascism develops. And we're on our way there. We already are there in many respects. Paraphrasing a comment I read somewhere a while back:
    A police state doesn't exist when the government arrests everyone; it exists when the government can arrest everyone.
     
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  7. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    If we don't get this turned arround, it will continue to evolve and get worse. These authoritarian states don't survive; eventually they are overthrown. The final legacy of the Obama & Bush administrations may well be American Revolution II.
     
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  8. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    I hate to agree with Mike in case I get disappeared by an action under NDAA or some other of this nonsense, but I have often thought the exact same thing.

    How can people not understand that the tighter the vice, the harder people will push back?
     
  9. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    The problem is that people don't push back enough in the short term, rather they buy in to the authorities' excuses, e.g. 9/11, Al Quada, terrorism. When they finally realize what sort of monster has been created, it's a lot harder to push back.
     
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  10. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    And in the meantime, people like us are tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists who are off our meds.

    Uh, Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.
     
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  11. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    You'd better believe I am hounding my mailing list -- especially the naysayers -- with these stories, along with snarky comments using some of the verbatim things they've said to me in the past. I don't put attribution on the quotes; I figure those people know who they are, the others just think I'm being generally sarcastic.
     
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  12. Frank

    Frank Original Member

     
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  13. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    If some of the economic savants are correct, we are at the beginning of a several decades long delevering of all the debt, public and private, that has been built up since world war 2. This delevering is going to leave much of the current federal structure as an empty hulk, depriving it of legitimacy in the eyes of the public. Societal control mechanisms, if history is our guide, will be the last to go. More than a few observers expect popular support for these control mechanisms to erode over time to the point where the people will simply remove them.
    A long winded way to suggest that although we are in a minority at the moment, this will change.
     
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  14. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    Interesting. I need to brush up on these theories.

    Just thinking out loud, but am I alone in considering that this is the "end of the world" scenario predicted by the Mayan culture as 12/21/2012? Some scholars I've heard believe that the "end of the world" on the Mayan calendar is actually an end to the world as we know it. IOW perhaps a complete change in societal structure.

    Any thoughts on how long it will take things like scope and grope and prisons for profit to disappear?
     
  15. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Ben Stein's papa Herb, tricky Dicky Nixon's chief economist, said "things that can't go on forever, don't".
    Both the economics of the situation (overconsuming for decades, too much debt) and the monetary crisis that is developing guarantee an end of the status quo.
    The centralized, European-type nanny and security state simply won't be able to continue, simply on these terms. Moreover, in psychological terms, people aren't going to want to put up with it when it becomes clear that the government is the problem. Fewer and fewer people benefiting from the system = a loss of influence and increasing resentments.

    But a hard stop end by year end 2012 would require a real deus ex machina, IMO. I'm thinking these things will take years to run their course.
     
  16. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    this is an excellent point. I think you are correct. In some ways, the deliberate push for the totalitarian state continuing and gaining speed under Obama appears to be raising opposition.

    One interesting development in this area is Obamacare. Several weeks ago, Health Secretary Sibelius pointed a gun barrel at the head of the Catholic church in the US, by ordering them to comply with Obamacare demands that they provide abortion services, contraceptive services, etc., by August of this year, in the insurances they provide their workers, which violates basic tenets of that church. (To keep this in perspective, consider that 1 out of every 6 Americans receive care in Catholic facilities, not to mention other charitable activities.) No matter where you stand on this issue, the first amendment precludes the state from dictating that a religious body provide support for these items. Such a forced violation of conscience will have negative consequences for everyone if it succeeds. It is interesting that after destroying the 4th Amendment, our dictator Obama now extends his knife to the First Amendment which forbids government interference in internal church affairs.

    It will be an interesting fight, this time with an entity with significant political power. Will the Church fight, or will we see another Concordat....
     
  17. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    The Mayan thing is sheer superstition. The economic realities of this country -- and the entire global economy -- are historical fact.

    And it's not just "the evil government." Our government is owned and run by plutocrats. There are a lot of villains out there, including in the private sector. As we've discussed umpteen times, there's money to be made in war, in terror, in "security." Government policies don't just happen by themselves. They happen because they benefit people in power, they benefit wealthy people. Those people aren't going to give up their wealth and power without a fight. A major fight.

    As for contraceptive and abortion services, sorry, but you may as well say, "My religious/philosophical beliefs mean I object to paying for smoking cessation, or other addiction treatment, or obesity," or whatever, "because those people should've known better than to take that first puff/snort/needle/extra donut/you-name-it in the first place."

    And I'm no fan of Obamacare, but not for the reasons libertarians cite. I'm against it because it's a valentine to the insurance industry. It doesn't guarantee health care for all -- which, yes, I believe it a human right. Millions of people are still going to be unable to afford health care.

    Social security (scary socialism!) has saved more people's asses in this country. If it hadn't been for that, we'd have even more millions living under bridges. Which is where a lot of us are going to end up if the equally craven Dems and Repubs succeed in gutting it, which they're trying to do.
     
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  18. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    trust me obamacare is going to turn a bad situation even worse. Were already seeing it in the prehospital environment.

    Dont get me even started on those that live off the govt tits and demand their entitlements. It pisses me off because im paying through the (expletive deleted) and nose for health insurance (between premiums and deductibles im paying $7K a year) and other costs so i dont end up sick as a dog and end up in the ICU as I have legit medical problems. Yet these leeches who do nothing want everything now and for free.... FOAD

    Last one that demanded i give them morphine because they stubbed there toe, got a 14ga iv needle in the hand. No pain killers* either just saline(ICE cold). I told him it was some new stuff and placebo effect worked it was funny. Now I burst the bubble when I gave report report at the ER and the nurse promptly told the leech to go sit in the waiting room and wait there turn behind the other thousand people in front of him. Look was priceless, I wish i had a camera.

    This countries going to (expletive deleted) in a hand basket because businesses and special interest groups are running this country and not the people which was its creators intent.

    *= This is due to a international shortage on a whole range of medications from antibiotics to narcotics. I will reserve them for the people that truly need meds that i know are in short supply.
     
  19. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    That isn't the issue. The first amendment is certainly in play here. Or do you support the Bill of Rights only for those who think the way you do?
     
  20. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Also, it is certainly not true that health care is a right. A right stems from our humanity, such as the right to speak freely. A good is something you buy or someone else buys for you. Health care is a good.
     

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