Passenger Advocate Sought for US Airports

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Fisher1949, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Yeah, I'd pass on torture as well.
    I just want it to stop, the humiliation, the theft...From a comment in one of the postingsof this story today:
    Not that there shouldn't be some form of retribution...
  2. Fredd

    Fredd Original Member

    That Senator Schumer? :p

    Oh, that's a terrific idea. :rolleyes: Let's hire more people to monitor the people "we" have already hired to monitor us.

    Yes, and let's have either the government pay for it or the airlines pay for it, just as long as I don't have to pay for it.

    Does anybody else see flaws or downright futility in this approach?
  3. RadioGirl

    RadioGirl Original Member

    Well, yeah. They forgot to propose ANOTHER layer of management to make sure that the passenger advocates are doing what they're supposed to. :confused:
    Doober, Fredd and Elizabeth Conley like this.
  4. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    The form of "passenger advocacy" proposed thus far simply makes the TSA even bigger and less effective. Real advocacy means real accountability for the TSA. We need advocates at the checkpoints who aren't dependent on the TSA for their paychecks.

    I think it's disgraceful that local LEOs aren't already filling this need. It's appalling to look back and realize that in the past when local LEOs have shown up they've only served to escalate the abuse of the victim.

    I agree that an advocacy system is needed to protect citizens, but I strongly protest "another layer" of "security theater." We've had enough entertainment, thanks very much. We need real protection from the Terrorist Support Agency, and we need it yesterday.
    Fredd, Fisher1949, Sunny Goth and 4 others like this.
  5. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Brava, on all counts.
    Fredd and Fisher1949 like this.
  6. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    It's like we need 'monitors', just like we do in third world countries to make sure elections are done properly. :(
    Lisa Simeone and Fredd like this.
  7. FaustsAccountant

    FaustsAccountant Original Member

    .....I'll 'not' point to my other comment in a different thread remarking on how half the country is employed to watch the other half....;)
    Lisa Simeone and Fredd like this.
  8. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    Only politicians could screw up what is a basically good idea by assigning the oversight of the assailants to the assailants.

    Just can't make this stuff up.
  9. RadioGirl

    RadioGirl Original Member

    (Agree with your whole post; edited to save space.)

    I absolutely agree that it would be useless (or worse) to have a TSA employee as an advocate. I'm just not sure that having local LEOs, state employees or airline/airport employees would be much better.

    I suspect that in some (many? most?) airports, TSA employees and other employees (including LEOs) are together day after day. They pass each other in the parking lot, the restrooms, stand in line at the food court, etc. Maybe they hang out together on their breaks, or get to talking over lunch. Inevitably, some will strike up a conversation, some will become friends. (Also possible, of course, that some will form a negative opinion of some or all TSA people.;))

    But at the very least, they're familiar faces. Whereas the passengers, with the exception of very frequent flyers, are nameless strangers.

    So when TSA Joe calls LEO Larry to intervene with a passenger, it's human nature that the LEO will side with someone he likes or at least recognizes, rather than a stranger. Of course, if Larry has decided Joe is an idiot, maybe he's more likely to side with the passenger.

    A full-time, paid passenger advocate, regardless of who pays them, will be at the checkpoint with TSA employees all day long. When things are slow, they're going to chat about the weather or sports or politics. Someone is going to say "let's go get some lunch." Advocate Alice will hear about TSA Mary's daughter's dance recital. TSA Joe will discover that Advocate Brian supports the same football team. It's hard to see how you can expect people to work together and then be neutral in handling complaints made by a stranger against someone they work with daily. Maybe this is more of an issue in small/medium airports with one/few checkpoints, compared to places like LAX and ORD where you could rotate people around.

    If it was up to me, passenger advocate would be a part-time position, rotating lots of people through so that no one is at the same checkpoint more than two days a month. Try to attract retired people who want a day or two of work per week or professionals who are willing to volunteer one day a month. (Imagine something midway between "substitute teacher" and "jury duty". :cool: ) I'd start by hiring feisty elderly women from NY ;), maybe some (retired?) lawyers and judges, and other people with a strong sense of independence.

    Or, as jtodd said, just fix the problems in the first place so you don't need an "advocate". ^^^
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  10. DeafBlonde

    DeafBlonde Original Member

    I'd lean toward feisty elderly women who worked as coctail waitresses in biker bars! ;)

    Dream on! :rolleyes:
    Lisa Simeone and RadioGirl like this.
  11. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Joe is a TSA employee, and therefore definitely an idiot, probably a liar, and possibly a thief or rapist.
  12. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  13. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    & our own Bill Fisher got right in there with comment #1 & a big helping of 'tude! :DS
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  14. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    My comment was screened by the Moderator who decided against posting it.

    Pistole is loving the proposal, and expansion of empire:
    Worse, the NY granny families are being roped into the scheme:
  15. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Great. Nothing like being co-opted.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  16. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Get your victims to be complicit in their abuse. This, too, is a time-tested ploy. Torturers use it, pedophiles use it, sadists of all types use it. "I'm really sorry, but you know I'm only doing this for your own good. And it's not so bad, now, is it? It could be a lot worse. You see, I can help you. If only you'll cooperate."

    Too bad Dante's not around to update his book. He'd have to add a new circle of (expletive deleted) for Pistole and friends.
    KrazyKat likes this.
  17. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Reproduce it here if you can, even if it isn't word for word.

    I left a brief comment. It was allowed to post. Though I don't even know why I bother anymore. Countering these people's lies and (expletive deleted) just gives them respect they don't deserve.
    FaustsAccountant likes this.
  18. FaustsAccountant

    FaustsAccountant Original Member

    But at the same time, if we don't say something, they will boosts their ego and think they are 100% unopposed.
  19. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    That's the key - they have to know that we are always watching them, that they are never free to spread their lies without having to expect us to be all over them like a bad suit, countering with a position upholding principles of liberty.
    FaustsAccountant and Doober like this.
  20. RB

    RB Founding Member

    My comment posted right away:


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