Passengers' opinions of us that much lower ... (split from 'Cell phone user arrested')

Discussion in 'Other Aspects of Aviation Security' started by Rugape, Sep 7, 2011.

  1. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Lucky you... or unlucky you depending on how rich the person was..... Common courtesy is almost completely gone nowadays. I know none of us is perfect, but there was something to being at least courteous to the people you interact with (not friends, we can abuse those knuckleheads all we want). At work, same thing - why on earth would a TSO want to be unprofessional or discourteous to a passenger? All it does is make everyone else in the checkpoints job that much harder, and the passengers opinion of us that much lower. Sad really, the Brits have maintained some of the cursory politeness even to beggars on the street (from my experience at least), why have we completely tossed it out the window (generally speaking)?
    Cartoon Peril likes this.
  2. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Well, I think every generation over a certain age thinks that courtesy is dead. ;-) My kids regard me as a hopeless fossil, probably I am. Somehow I went from hip to fossil without even realizing it, and, worse yet, without even being hip.
    Lisa Simeone, Rugape and Doober like this.
  3. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    I'm not sure that's possible.

    You seem a reasonably intelligent person - why do you choose to work for an organization that is devoted to shitting on the Constitution in the name of security theatre?
  4. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Perhaps he thought he was doing the right thing. There are good people working for the TSA, and Rugape is one of them.
    Rugape likes this.
  5. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    I happen to disagree. There may have been good people working for the TSA, but anyone still working there now isn't.
  6. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    For the answer to that question, you need to look at the pool from which the TSA hires, so often a pool comprised of individuals who feel, for whatever reason, disenfranchised.

    Yet again I can't find a link to which I responded yesterday - it came from a British publication - but the phrase used in that article describing the type of people the TSA tends to hire would answer your question for you.
  7. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    You're probably thinking of the Paul Theroux column:

  8. Doober

    Doober Original Member

  9. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Can we having the screaming and crying Linoleum Lizzards taken away too?
  10. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    I would like to think I am reasonably intelligent (momma said so, so it must be right?). I work here because I think it would be giving up on things if I left. I want to stay here and make as positive an impact, and change what I can from my position. I am not a big dog, and I am not moving up the ladder very quickly, but I do make a handful of people happier everyday, and help a handful of people everyday. I came to this job because it was a chance to get back into security and a chance to do it for the country instead of a 2 bit enterprise. In the interest of full disclosure, it was also a federal position, but that was actually a minor factor. I came from a LEO past, and did not wish to be a LEO again, but security was a nice way to do something in the interests of my Country again. I have policy disagreements with TSA (I don't air them here very often, but I do have them), and I think that some of what we do is counterproductive, but seeing the other side of the process, I can understand why they do it. To leave now, just because I could make more money in the private sector (and I have had a ton of offers) would be like abandoning something that I think is important. Not all of you may agree with my reasoning (and the woman doesn't always agree with me), but that is my reasoning, and I am going to stick it out as long as I feel this way (which hopefully will be a long, long time - giving me the chance to have a positive impact on thousands of passengers, and hundreds of coworkers).

    There may be some folks hired that way, but there are tons of folks that I work with that are from much higher education, and previous employment is anything but a pizza place. We have tons of former military, some former LEOs, some former Intel analysts, and then we also have some folks that worked at gas stations. Another point, just because someone is hired because of a pizza box, does not mean they are not suitable candidates for the job, college kids eat tons of pizza, as do many of the nations younger professionals in many fields - it is an easy food, and many pizza places deliver, making it simple. Some of the folks may be disenfranchised, but many more of them are professionals from around the business market that came here for many different reasons.
  11. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    And that's something I will never understand about the TSA mentality. How does groping four-year-olds, forcing Granny to drop her Depends, and barking at people have a "positive impact?"

    It's certainly not because anything you do actually contributes to making any flight "safer" or "more secure."

    It must be a lot like being that person on a cell phone on the plane, convinced that what they're doing is "right," because "they need to do it."
  12. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    As we've seen from a recent discussion, perhaps former military (and LEOs) are not the best pool either. Nor Intel analysts who have "never seen a threat they didn't like."

    You're from Greensboro and probably haven't had much of an opportunity to interact with the "aggrieved underclass" such as are prevalent at EWR and other urban airports.
  13. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    ATL, PHX, and DFW - which are the primary reasons I simply don't fly any more.
    barbell likes this.
  14. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Possibly because I see things differently than you do. The patdowns are simply a way of clearing a person for possible WEI, and if done per SOP, are not anything other than a patdown. If a 4 year old alarms in some fashion, the alarm has to be resolved (per SOP). TSA did not force Granny to remove her depends, they had an anomoly that was not able to be cleared and presented her with options - that is what the SOP tells them to do. I have barked in a checkpoint once, and that was to keep a small child from jumping off of the 6 foot cabinets (think 4 year old) that her parents allowed her to climb because it was cute. That is part of the positive impact I was speaking of, not barking, and doing my best to make certain that noone else working for TSA does so.

    You can argue that the policies are wrong, and on some points I would agree with you. I believe that I do make every flight from my airport a little bit safer by what I do. You are quite free to disagree with me, it will not have an impact on my feelings one way or the other. I will continue to go to work and attempt to make as much positive impact as possible.

    Your comparison is a bit like apples and oranges, what I do, I do within the SOP - you can disagree with the SOP all day (I do on some points), but the individual on the cell phone was going against the posted guidelines or rules.
  15. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Military and LEO are not necessarily better or worse with the possible exception of having been exposed to security protocols before coming to TSA. There are good and bad in all collections of folks (to include the "aggrieved underclass"... I don't really like that term... can't quite put my finger on why), the big thing is to reward and promote those that do the job well, and follow the SOP. Intel analysts are a group that is used to combing and distilling and putting 1 and 32 together and coming up with 6 - which is what it really is, they should be employed in that type of field. Maybe not the best suited for working as a front line TSO, but they have tools the organization can use to it's betterment.

    I have interacted quite a bit with folks that are at the sharp end of the stick in a bad way, druggies, dope peddlers, minion slingers, distributors of illicit drugs and muscle that go with them. They all were people, admittedly different than I was/am, but they were still people. Just because someone is from a challenging life situation, does not mean they are not able to come into a position and learn it and do what is right - they may take more effort (on a personal level) because of their previous life, but to discount them simply because they are not from Harvard or Yale is to undersell the populace without cause. I have said before, some of the smartest people I have ever known never made it out of the 3rd grade, but they were just as sharp as a razor blade about many things (they "just wasn't book smart"). There are good people everywhere, you just have to look for them.
  16. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    I agree with the highlighted statement above, but don't believe the TSA does that. While I am certain that because of the economy, the turnover rate of screeners has dropped, the TSA still takes anybody who can meet the physical requirements, has a pulse and, perhaps, can comprehend written English. The "catch phrase" on the pizza boxes, something about "x-ray vision" is aimed at those who would like to feel they have some power and control over some part of their life, not your well-adjusted candidate.
    Lisa Simeone and barbell like this.
  17. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    The simple fact that you say this, whether or not you actually buy into it, is the sort of bureaucratic (expletive deleted) doublespeak that makes you the enemy of any rational citizen.
    4nsicdoc likes this.
  18. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Rugape, this statement is the outrageous one in your otherwise rational reply. It's packed full of TSA propaganda.

    Telling Granny, "well, you don't have to remove your Depends, but if you don't, then you can't fly" is coercion. Repeating the incessant term du jour "anomaly," so beloved of TSA minions as they send their prey off to their little glassed-in gulags, doesn't win you any points either. Anything is an anomaly to these people, as we've discussed on this blog umpteen times -- a kleenex, a coin, a ponytail holder. An attitude. And, apparently, a (expletive deleted) in a diaper.

    The SOP is also a (expletive deleted). Running your arounds around and over people's breasts, stomachs, heads, and crotches isn't "clearing" anything, it isn't "resolving" anything, it isn't doing sh*t but subjugating and humiliating passengers. That's the purpose. That's the sole purpose, as stated explicitly by more than one TSA agent, and by that twisted head case John Pistole.
    AngryMiller and barbell like this.
  19. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    Ah, yes, the ends justify the means excuse.

    It's OK to whip runaway slaves because they simply must pick the cotton. Nothing more, nothing less. Cotton is king, and money must be made. Those were, after all, the rules.

    Many people saw differently, too, for a time, and even died for the privilege.

    I imagine this person on the cell phone would gladly hand over his (expletive deleted) for a probing should TSA demand it. That's been my experience with these special snowflake types.
    Lisa Simeone and AngryMiller like this.
  20. AngryMiller

    AngryMiller Original Member

    Hmm, I've had my scrotum cupped during several of these pat downs, my perineum pressed so hard I went up on my toes to avoid pain, etc. all in the name of security. Sorry, but that does nothing but further my already intense dislike for an out of control, answerable to no one agency. 'No you didn't confiscate that item, it was voluntarily surrendered'(which in my mind reads as you took it from me under duress - extortion if you would for lack of a better term) as part of the word games played here and at checkpoints.

    One thing during the past couple weeks is that the procedure for patdowns has noticeably changed DTW, MSP noticeably for the better (not saying it is anywhere near being acceptable but it has improved) by keeping off of the genitals. Once I even pressed my upper thighs together so hand travel up to the groin was difficult (providing early resistance) and was told to relax. Funny I thought it was just to be to point of resistance. Disgusting to have to undergo that just to fly for work. Wonder how TSOs would feel if everytime they came to work that they got the full treatment?

    Much of what is done in the name of providing security is to shock and awe the infrequent travelers into compliance to make your jobs easier, but not neccessarily improving security.
    4nsicdoc, rockon, barbell and 2 others like this.

Share This Page