Passengers' opinions of us that much lower ... (split from 'Cell phone user arrested')

Discussion in 'Other Aspects of Aviation Security' started by Rugape, Sep 7, 2011.

  1. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    This. One thousand times this.
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  2. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    I will respond to some of the comments with something that is going to send some of you off the rails. I can't give you the SOP, but pat downs per the SOP, are nothing like what some of you post here - not even close (others have put out more detailed descriptions of the process, but I can't due to SSI).

    As for the adult diaper scenario, it is a sad situation, and frustrating, even heart rending for the folks involved, but an anomoly is the term used when there is a possibility that something dangerous is there. In order to clear an anomoly, the TSO must be certain that nothing dangerous is there, per the SOP. If not, then the person is not cleared to continue, per the SOP. You can disagree with that all you want, but it is what we the TSOs have to work within at this point. You can petition for changes to the policy, but as soon as there are changes made, someone somewhere has a new page in their "bad guy playbook". The changes for childrens shoes, same story. Excluding a subset of people simply because they are who they are (or because of what they wear, or their ethnicity, or their religion, or any other descriptor) opens a new way to get something dangerous in.

    There is nothing in my job that is designed to "shock and awe" people or subjugate them, it is simply clearing passengers to make certain that there are no dangerous items getting onto planes. According to the SOP, that is all the screening is, prevention of dangerous items getting onto planes. If some of you have had bad experiences, I apologize that you had those experiences (on a side note, did you file complaints - if not, then please do). Some of you may be upset because I use the correct terminology (anomoly, voluntarily surrendered, etc), but I am not going to stop using what the organization uses because some of you disagree with it.

    Sorry for not responding earlier, but I was out of town all weekend.
  3. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Those of us who've filed complaints with the TSA know just how futile it is, and have started filing our complaints with the idiots who keep giving the TSA more money to use in violating us.

    (And it's "anomaly," even if it's misspelled in the SOP that we can't petition to change because we're not even allowed to know what's in it. Secret laws and secret rules are the hallmark of an authoritarian state.)
  4. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Then it would follow that "clearing" and "resolving" and "prevention of dangerous items getting onto planes" must also include cavity searches. When do they start? Because I want to be safe!
  5. RB

    RB Founding Member

    The fact that TSA has created subsets of people that are excluded from screening defeats all other things TSA does.

    I have filed a complaint and the crooked FSD of FLL squashed all investigations. The FLL FSD covered up an attempted theft by a TSA employee. So much for TSA investigations!
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  6. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Boggie, I agree with you that having subsets that are screened less stringently than others, opens up holes in the process. It is not what I like to see (from a Army security POV), but risk based screening is the direction that TSA is moving at this point.
  7. RB

    RB Founding Member

    My concern is the mass of airport workers who go unscreened and can take anything in to and out of the so-called sterile area.

    TSA refuses to even address this issue.
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  8. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    I agree that it is a large hole, and I have no problem with screening upon entry... I am also in a small minority of TSA employees I would guess.
  9. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Whether your in the majority or minority doesn't really matter.

    TSA is charged with keeping WEI out of the secure area and off of commercial airplanes. That is pretty much the whole of the TSA mission in a short phrase.

    TSA is not accomplishing that mission.

    TSA if not capable of doing its core job should be disbanded and more competent methods and managers put in place.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  10. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    My chief objection to TSA's search regime is not that it is unreasonably intrusive (although it is), but rather that it is ineffective. We have seen multiple demonstrations of guns and bomb parts being smuggled through security. And we have also seen multiple instances of failures to inspect baggage when flagging it as inspected, TSOs using their positions to smuggle drugs or aid drug smugglers and so forth.

    Perhaps the primary testament to the ineffective nature of the TSA security regime is what occurred on 9/11/11, when not one but two different flights had to be escorted by F-16s because of misplaced suspicion of passengers, and at least three more had some kind of diversion or delay as a result. If aviation professionals had any confidence in TSA, the Detroit incident and others probably would not have happened.
  11. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Theare were 30 posts in the thread had completely derailed their original thread (cell phone user arrested), so I moved them.

    This thread will probably relocate to a more suitable forum at some point.
  12. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    If you're not a thief or a pervert, yes - you are.
  13. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Please continue to file the complaints, you may not get the responses you are looking for out of them, but the trail will be there for someone to address. I understand your frustration with it, I have my own frustrations with the apparent lack of address to complaints from the public. I still ask you to file complaints on things when something happens, in the hope that someone will find that trail and address them more publicly.

    Derp, been a spellin that wrong all this time!
  14. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    I don't have any more complaints to file. I switched jobs last year just so I'd not have to spend six or seven hours every week dealing with knuckle-dragging jack-booted thugs in bright blue shirts.

    It's my sincerest hope that you find another job as soon as possible. Preferably one that isn't centered around lying to and abusing the public.
  15. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I would truly appreciate if TSA did take note of complaints but it seems that each FSD is more interested in their little fiefdom and how good they look to the bosses at HQ.

    For complaints to have any chance of improving things all submitted complaints should be handled by an office not under the direct umbrella of Pistole and certainly not by the FSD or his staff.

    This is not taking a shot at you but identifying a serious failing of TSA and its management (a term that almost makes me laugh).
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  16. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    I can find no problem with being upset by a lack of (or a percieved lack of) response or action when complaints are filed. Removing the complaint/comment process from TSA may help, but maybe not, it all depends on which group handles it, the staffing, the protocols, the access to information, all of that goes into effectively addressing comments from the passengers - someone outside the organization may not understand the processes well enough to respond effectively, without disclosing something.

    Not all responses will be what the person filing wants to hear, not all responses are going to be positive, and not all responses are going to get through the way they should. Some of that may be bureacratic sludge, some of it may even be indifference, and some of it will be something getting lost. I have seen complaints addressed fairly quickly here, and some that were kind of slow in response, but that is also natural to the system. I wish there were some streamlined system where some small group recieved all commentary and addressed it, I am not a big fan of the localized system, but then again, there is probably a pretty good reason for it from HQs pov.
  17. rockon

    rockon Original Member

    (bolding mine).

    The usual problem, you're trying to assign too much blame to the hard-working TSO. SOP tells the TSO to proceed full-speed-ahead until pax 'resistance' is encountered.

    It is your fault you experienced pain because you did not display any signs of 'resistance' to the grope until it was too late to avoid pain.

    AngryMiller likes this.
  18. rockon

    rockon Original Member


    I think of this every time a 'big' event blows up. How long has a problem dragged on because the complaint process is made deliberately cumbersome/impossible and even the complaints that do make it into the system are not addressed?

    In many of the instances of TSO theft, for example, I suspect there was already an existing trail of complaints that were disregarded. Such a simple thing to analyze complaints for overall patterns - where did it happen, who was working at the time, start pulling and reviewing tapes.

    Absolutely there should be an independent watchdog who is the point of receipt of all complaints.

    I've posted elsewhere - I actually tried to get a form to compliment a checkpoint employee. I had to wait for 'someone' to be summoned - well over 10 minutes. Then he (2-striper) had to 'go see' if they had any forms. Another 10+ minutes go by. Then he gives me the form. I point out the TSO - whose name I hadn't gotten. He told me to fill in the form and give it back to him and he would put the TSOs name on it.

    Sadly, by that time I'd spent nearly half an hour and I didn't have time to sit there and fill out a form. Too bad. That was a very good TSO.
  19. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    "It's OK if you go until you meet 'resistance.' If you cause me pain, I am going to swing my fist in the general direction of your larynx until it 'meets resistance.'"

    Much like idiots who refuse to hang up their cell phones, people who pop their gum at the movies, and people who think it's acceptable to let their two-year-old run around a restaurant like a ferret on crack, I think the world could be a much, much better place if it were legal to forcibly terminate the gene lines...
    AngryMiller likes this.
  20. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    ...and every employee willing to work under that system. Lack of accountability must be an attractive perk for the job.
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