Lawsuit Rahinah Ibrahim No-Fly List case revived

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Sunny Goth, Feb 9, 2012.

  1. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    A Malaysian woman's suit was revived. Now she can challenge her two-hour airport detention where she was handcuffed and questioned because she was on a no-fly list.

    Court Revives Challenge to No-Fly List

    The dissent in this case is stunning - at least to me. Here's what what was reported:

    In dissent, New York U.S. District Judge Kevin Duffy, sitting by assignment, said courts should stay out of the flap because the “alleged harm is ultimately non-redressable.”

    wow.
     
  2. DeafBlonde

    DeafBlonde Original Member

    Humph! Just like a New Yorker...turn the other way and say, "I don't want to get involved." BULL:poop:!!!!! (*My apologies to New Yorker's who really do give a damn about their fellow citizens.*)
     
  3. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Beat me to it by 21 minutes (well 44 now but 21 when I started writing).

    What I'm trying to figure out is how a U.S. District Court judge from New York becomes the dissenter in a 9th- Circuit Courts of Appeals 3-judge panel???? They're already daffy enough on the left coast without adding any loose screws from New York.

    More details from the article:

    There's already a good example here: You can only be detained based on probable cause or reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed. Being put on a list by the government is not a crime. As a result, Rabinah Ibrahim received an hourly rate of $112,500 for the hassle, which is not a bad honorarium for a grad student.

    Her continued lawsuit is against the federal government over the list itself and the lack of notice and transparent procedures for correcting errors. I suspect she will win in the end. My personal reading is that he no-fly list is unconstitutional -- the government is depriving you of your right to association (travel) without due process of law. This is little differenct in concept than a no-speech list, in which the government might create a list of people who were required to keep their traps shut.

    As far as the loose screw from New York is concerned, check your pizza boxes for jobs. TSA is hiring. There are plenty of other federal judges who are capable of doing their jobs & declaring constitutional activities to be ... unconstitutional, which is the proper redress in this case.
     
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  4. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    So they're admitting here that the gropes aren't necessarily random (which we always knew anyway).

     
  5. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    In a way, I think this case may be an excellent way to gut some of the other nonsense that is creeping up.

    Presumably the PreCheck program is informed by the NFL. If the NFL is declared void, PreCheck simply can't be effective.
     
  6. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    I'd argue that PreCheck can't be effective for other reasons. PreCheck tells you who the person is, it does not determine the intent of the individual.
     
  7. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    Well, yeah, but the more nails in its coffin, the better.
     
  8. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    :) Absolutely.
     
  9. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

  10. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    I posted this a couple days ago but there is much more detail in this account. Unfortunately, the story doesn't get any better for her when we know more. :(

    Now to find my original post ....
     
  11. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    Sorry, I didn't see it. I agree, she's not out of the woods yet by along shot.

    Please merge the threads.
     
  12. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Great detailed summary:
    You know, it's interesting how this information to 'go enhanced' on the traveler proceeds them, flagged as a prior complainant carrying breast milk, or the odd fly/no-fly case of Ms.Ibrahim. RFID? If not on the pass, how?
     
  13. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Here's a story about the no-fly list from back in 2002. Look how our overlords prevented these oh-so-scary high school students from exercising their rights:

    Protesters Detained in Milwaukee: Are You on the No Fly List?
    April 27, 2002
     
  14. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    20 of 37 had "similar" names and "about five or six individuals came up on the watch list"?

    This is probably on of the earliest indications that they targeting protesters against our relationships with "our sons-of-bitches" in Latin America. That harassment continues today, ten years later.

    Bull:poop:!
     
  15. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    How do people with the brains to know better not see how actions such as these chill free speech?

    There is no greater aspect to our form of government than our ability to walk into our representatives' offices and demand we be heard.

    Yet one more piece of evidence that DHS is destroying America from within.
     
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  16. Affection

    Affection Original Member

    It's good to see Ibrahim v. DHS move forward.

    --Jon
     
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  17. Frank

    Frank Original Member

    But, Mike, the system did work. This is the embryo stage of the planned internal passport system, where those the government doesn't like can be denied permission to travel.
     
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  18. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    God, if only this didn't cut so close to the bone.
     
  19. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    The case of Rahinah Ibrahim is back in the news, with the judge refusing to consider what is basically under the table, non-shared "evidence" from the government ...

    Politico: Judge rebuffs feds' secret arguments on no-fly list

    A federal judge in California has rejected the Obama administration's effort to use secret arguments and evidence to defeat a lawsuit relating to the so-called no-fly list designed to keep suspected terrorists off of airline flights. U.S. District Court Judge William Alsup turned down a motion by the Justice Department to dismiss former Stanford student Rahinah Ibrahim's lawsuit against various federal government agencies over her reported inclusion on the no-fly list as well as an incident in September 2005 where she was barred from taking a flight from San and detained for a couple of hours.

    Alsup, who sits in San Francisco, also refused the Justice Department's offer to show him affidavits from law enforcement officials which the government would not share with Ibrahim or her attorneys.

    Not only was the government trying to submit secret evidence gossip to the judge, they were also fudging with respect to the case law that they claim supported their position:

    "It has gone so far as even to redact from its table of authorities some of the reported caselaw on which it relies! This is too hard to swallow," Alsup wrote.

    Just trust us, judge, after wall we're the gubmint. :eek:
     
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  20. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    they have overreached. and evidently, not all members of the federal bench are corrupt. good for this judge.
     
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