Rendered, Tortured & Discarded: A Shocking Story of an Innocent Man’s Ordeal in U.S. Prisons Abroad

Discussion in 'What's On Your Mind?' started by Lisa Simeone, Jul 6, 2012.

  1. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    "Why do they hate us?" Oh, that's right, "they hate us for our freedom!"

    Rendered, Tortured & Discarded: A Shocking Story of an Innocent Man’s Ordeal in U.S. Prisons Abroad
     
  2. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Things like this don't help, but the timeline of these things doesn't go back far enough to explain much.
     
  3. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    They hate us all right. These chickens are going to come home to roost in more ways than one. We're going to have crimes like this committed by the state against U.S. citizens at home, and we're going to have to face the deep loathing of our enemies abroad for generations to come.

    We have let our Federal Government run wild.
     
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  4. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    *yawn*
     
  5. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Yeah, torture is so yesterday. Like, who gives a (expletive deleted)?
     
    Monica47 and barbell like this.
  6. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    They hate us?

    In all time I've been abroad (approx 7 months in the last 10 years, and several years earlier in my life), I can count on one finger the number of people I've heard seriously criticize the U.S. That was a river tour boat captain in Ljubjana, Slovenia, who didn't appreciate "W". Meanwhile, his tour guide was giving her spiel that seemed perhaps not to have changed since the days of Tito.

    I'm sure there would be plenty of discussions point if we dug into things, but "they hate us" is simply bull:poop:.
     
  7. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    That's encouraging. I hope you are correct.
     
  8. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    I don't believe for a second that these things have no effect abroad. It does contribute to the loss of prestige and confidence in US leadership abroad, feeding into the perception that the US cannot be trusted. That coupled with our economic and monetary issues *is* leading the non Western world to conclude their own currency exchange deals outside the US dollar, and their own interbank transfer systems outside the US-dominated SWIFT system. That is why the US attempt at embargoing Iranian oil failed--the US threatened other countries with ejection from SWIFT, the other parties countered with doing petro deals in gold not dollars, and the US was forced to cave, issuing exemptions to everyone except Pakistan and Afghanistan. (The US exempted China and Indonesia last week, but exempted everyone else long before that.)

    The non Western (non G8) world is extricating itself from our financial and political hegemony, with military consequences to follow. I believe your sanguinity is ill-placed, Mike. When the USD is no longer the world's reserve currency, our standard of living drops by 25% at a minimum. The US is seen either as a threat or a very dangerous "friend".
     
  9. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    Your concerns mirror mine. Among my European friends I detect more than a hint of pity, and I strongly suspect people in the Middle East and Africa think we're powerful but dangerous.

    I want the U.S. to be liked and admired, but that's not the message I'm getting.
     
  10. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    That has little to with U.S. prestige & everything to do with oil supply & prices. Demand from China & India ("third world" countries in the process of moving up) is only going to increase. No oil embargo is likely to succeed today.

    The only other currency in a position to the dollar is the Euro, and it has its own problems. I suppose gold will work if you have it. :) Good news for those in gold funds! :D (not I)
     
  11. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    You're not thinking far enough. There is critical need for countries to have access to resources, esp the oil that is oxygen to the developing world's economies. The US tried to step on the air hose and got rebuffed. Not only rebuffed, but the attempt DIRECTLY resulted in an increase in cross currency deals outside the US dollar. None of those countries want to stay in a position where the US can force them into actions against their interests by using the western financial system.

    It was during this fiasco that China made the winning bid of the LME (london metals exchange) and will move it to Hong Kong. LME along with COMEX in NY together set (fix) world metals prices. LME moving out of London breaks the Anglo-US dominance in this crucial area. China is seizing its economic destiny.
     
  12. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    currency is used instead of real stuff because it is convenient. Currencies lose convenience if they cannot retain value sufficiently. The expectation and likelihood is that all currencies, which have devalued against gold since 1933, will accelerate in this devaluation until the outstanding amounts can be backed by gold, this last coming into play only out of necessity. (Again, China is importing half the worlds's monthly gold production EVERY month, which means they realize this.)

    in full disclosure, I've been in the metals --esp mining stocks-- for some time. (the best way to see this is as a value preservation play: ie, the three silver dimes that bought a gallon of gas in 1962 still buys a gallon of gas today--it doesn't buy TWO gallons.)
     
  13. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    And then there's our very own NATO ally, Turkey ...

    Washington Free Beacon: Gold for Oil: Turkey skirting Iran sanctions by trading gold for crude

    Turkey has exchanged nearly 60 tons of gold for several million tons of Iranian crude oil, despite its promises to uphold Western sanctions on Iran’s energy sector, according to recent Turkish reports.
    By using gold instead of money, Turkey is able to skirt Western sanctions on Iran’s oil trade, particularly those pertaining to SWIFT, the global money transfer service that until recently assisted the Central Bank of Iran and other Iranian financial institutions.

    Over the past several months, Turkey has given Iran 60 tons of gold, or more than $3 billion, according to a July 8 report on the Turkish news site Vatan Online. The report was translated by the Open Source Center, a translation service used by the CIA.

    Countries that need oil are going to do whatever it takes to get oil.
     

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