Discussion in 'What's On Your Mind?' started by Ron, Oct 16, 2011.
Oh, so the standard is to do all the work for them, just so they can ignore it? Interesting.
Wouldnt know, so I will happily let you tell us all about your experiences.
Well thank you. No, I honestly mean that.
I try not to personalize these things, which is one of the reasons that I believe that one member here will not "engage" with me. Its a job. Its an important job. I do it to the best of my ability. I am accountable to both my peers and my management, so I try not to let them down.
Yes, I study the laws that support our authority, someone there had to. And no, I have never claimed to be an attorney. But I can read the law just as well as the next guy, and I listen when a TSA attorney tells me which specific act, or acts, in congress has given us the authority to do the things we do.
All the flaming about the 4th amendment is just that, flaming. It has no basis in fact. You willingly give up your 4th amendment rights when you present yourself and your property for screening, that’s the law. And as long as we apply the same methodology to our screening across the spectrum of passengers, we remain within the laws as they stand right this minute. The law is an evolving thing, many things that were lawful at one time are not anymore, and many things that were unlawful are now legal.
One of the things I find most frustrating AND entertaining about the folks here and in like forums, is the refusal to accept responsibility for themselves and their actions. That is the one over-riding theme in these types of forums, shuffling the blame elsewhere instead of just admitting that you (not you specifically, you know what I mean) made a decision and there are consequences for that decision, either good or bad.
I hope to have a rational and productive tenure here. But given the character of many of the posters here it’s a small hope. A little bigger after reading your post, but still pretty small.
To be honest with you, I find your story completely plausible, which is a rare thing.
I have never been to PIT, so I have no idea how it is configured, and I agree that it makes no sense to have the customs exit into the sterile area. If there is a direct path to the non-sterile area why not just put up some tall glass partitions that prevent exiting passengers from doing anything but exiting?
2 things I would like to give you a “thumbs up” for. 1. Remaining calm and rational throughout the procedure or whatever others here will choose to mischaracterize it as. 2. Not telling the cop that you were audio recording the event.
Remaining calm is an important factor in any stressful situation. Folks screaming and yelling at the checkpoint only serve to make a situation worse, for everyone. TSA is not likely to go to jail because of it, but a passenger sure might.
Unless one has specific knowledge about a states wire tapping laws, it’s usually best to not record interactions with officials. What you did “may” have been a violation that would have gotten you a court date and a stiff fine. Best to not let that officer know about it, and best to keep the recording to yourself.
Overall, you did well.
Despite what you believe, they do it all the time. "Consent to Search", "Implied Consent", waving their "5th Amendment Rights". I could go on, but my point is made. BD, you are just wrong on this one.
The current Congress is about the worst place for law to be made, but its what we have. Sad.
I know about the Administrative Search, its one of them things that they teach us unedukated folks.
EPIC's case is alive, but if there is one thing I have learned in my years working with the courts, you can never tell what a judge is going to do.
Sorry Mike, but you are spinning. Travel is indeed a right, the courts have said so. Traveling includes walking, riding a bike, a pogo stick, personal automobile, bus, train, and air. You have many choices, if you dont like one then take one of the others. TSA is not preventing you from flying, they are making it conditional. Well set precedent in this area as well (Drivers license, pilots license), each form of travel has its regulations, just like travel on a commercial aircraft.
Government requires you to give up your rights all the time. Once again, you are spinning. You have to provide your Social Security Number to files your taxes, to get a job, to open a bank account. Many things require that you give up some portion of your rights to get what you want. You want to fly on a commercial aircraft, then for the time it takes you to get through the checkpoint you are required to suspend your 4th Amendment rights. Not completely, for sure not completely, but a great deal.
Again, my point is made.
Sorry, not allowed to share. Get your own.
Excuse while I check my give a s**t meter.
Hmmm, nope, not registering anything. Remain ignorant, I honestly don’t care. That’s why I call it “Intentional Ignorance”.
Like I said, follow the bouncing ball.
All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives."
Gonna ignore that link as well?
The right it to "Travel", not to "Practical Travel". Use a Pogo Stick.
Sure it was, yet again the right is to "Travel", not any specific form thereof. Use a boat, or a bus, or swim.
It’s called Personally Identifiable Information. Its why the Privacy Act of 1972 was passed. You can provide the information and get the services offered, or you can refuse to, and not get the services. It’s your choice. Therefore not a red herring but a relevant and accurate fact. Ignore the facts if you like, it’s not going to change them.
Speaking of red herrings… Hyperbole serves no purpose, please avoid it.
If you don’t want to surrender your 4th amendment rights then don’t book a commercial flight. Don’t approach the checkpoint, don’t go to the airport, don’t enter a federal building, don’t go to a court room. Simple, right?
I see that I can even if I spell it out for you that you are incapable of understanding it. Why don’t you do some reading on the laws involved and get back to us. Consult an attorney, learn something about the subject. I doubt that will happen, since you devolved to name calling to try and make a point. Be an adult and take the responsibility to educate yourself about the subject, otherwise you will continue to look like a fool.
You also miss the point. If you come to the checkpoint and present yourself and your property for screening then you are the one suspending your 4th amendment rights, not the government. No one is dragging you to the checkpoint, no one is forcing you to undergo screening, you are making that choice. Don’t like it? Don’t DO it! Take another form of transportation that does not require TSA involvement!
Everyone has to have a hobby I suppose. But I must ask a question, why are you also devolving to calling names instead of providing information? Is that how the arguments all end up here, when they cant make a rational counterpoint they result to name calling and rudeness? Does it make you feel better?
Were you going to try and make a point, or just sit along the sidelines casting the occasional aspersion? Get a backbone, geez.
Then obviously the United States Supreme Court agrees that the laws passed concerning the restriction of marijuana are within the bounds of the Constitution. They are after all the supreme authority on what is and is not constitutional, at least according to the Constitution.
Please show me where in the constitution where it specifically states you have the right to fly on a commercial aircraft. Which particular article and a link to it would be nice.
The constitution says that Congress has the authority to legislate. It’s what they do, they make the laws. Congress has passed laws that say that marijuana is a prohibited substance. Follow the bouncing ball, or are you incapable of thinking for yourself?
TSO's do not read minds. In fact, I cant think of anyone who can. And telling us that this is an exempted item and why takes very little effort. Don't do it and then you get to deal with the consequences of that decision.
You were there? More name calling? How... adult of you.
Don't believe either, no one is going to force you to. But then you get to deal with the consequences of your actions. Again that theme of refusing to accept responsibility for one own actions rears its ugly head. Be an adult, admit you didn't and deal with the consequences.
Obviously you missed this one.
Right, no excuse. Every adult in this country “should” be able to read. Obviously someone didn’t, or couldn’t. How sad.
TSA didn’t screw up here LeAnne, we don't know who did because the OP has not responded. You are assuming much with no evidence to support it. How usual.
TSA has signage all over the place, announcements over the PA system, in some airports we actually have flat screen TV’s providing streaming information to assist passengers, and TSO’s will gladly explain the rules when asked. At some point, the passenger must assume responsibility for their own actions and make the effort to do something for themselves.
Most people ignore the signs, and the announcements as far less important than the conversation they are having on their cell phone or with their friends, or thinking about what the airline is serving on the flight. Even the flat screens get ignored. Just how far are we supposed to go to inform the passenger? Injectable rule books? Telepathy? Individually assigned TSO’s to each and every passenger to stand in front of them and recite the rules that they have already ignored?
Come on, someone here MUST be rational!
And its TSA’s fault. Yeah, OK. At what point does the parent assume responsibility for their actions and the actions of their child?
Then you have made that choice. Accepted responsibility for that choice. Congratulations, here you are a party of one.
Just as most of what I see in these forums is abject stupidity and intentional ignorance. Perfect examples of the "idiot passenger" that we all hear about. Fortunately "idiot passengers" are few and far between. Most people "get it", but not the people here.
Separate names with a comma.