Lawsuit Shoshana Hebshi: Some Real Shock and Awe: Racially Profiled and Cuffed in Detroit

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Lisa Simeone, Sep 12, 2011.

  1. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    It is, frankly, shocking to me that some people will use the deaths of people they never knew to advance their own agenda in this way.

    In the comments section of Hebshi's blog about this incident someone claiming to be a son of these very people writes:

    And he goes on to discuss how he believes American interests in the Middle East were the cause of 9/11. Certainly doesn't square with Tandon's theories.

  2. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Oh, I agree, it's wrong. I was just pointing out that there was an opportunity once law enforcement had established that there was no bomb threat to Mirandize her and the others.
  3. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    There are so many unanswered questions here.

    72 hours before any of them boarded the plane, all of their names were fed through Secure Flight. Nothing turned up otherwise they wouldn't have been on that plane. DHS also does threat assessments on passengers, again nothing was found or they wouldn't have been on that plane. That's all done long before they even got to the airport.

    Once they were at the airport, we can make a couple of assumptions. She didn't note anything in her blog post about going through the scanners or having any kind of bad TSA search experience. If she had, she probably would have written about it in her blog as a kind of foreshadowing event for what was to come once they landed. My assumption is that whatever search she went through, it was nothing out of the ordinary.

    I don't know when the crew phoned in the threat, so it's hard to know how much time authorities had to gather and look at the data. But we know they had at least a half hour on the ground. That's time for them to look at all of the data above, plus PNR info that would have shown if any of them had flown together. PNRs may now contain car rentals and hotel reservations (depending on how the reservation was made) so they could check those records too. The FBI and state police have their own databases that they could have checked to help determine if these people were threats. And then there are the myriad other databases that they could have (and maybe did) checked. Credit card transactions, arrests, facebook and twitter postings, and who knows what else. And we know they checked at least some of that data because she mentions it in her blog post.

    One of two things happened.

    They didn't find anything and decided to send in the swat team anyway.
    They did the checking and found something and decided to send in the swat team

    If they did the checks and didn't find anything of interest, they could have just questioned these passengers in the same manner that they questioned everyone else, but they chose not to.

    If they did the checks and found something, then how did they get on the plane in the first place? If so there were multiple layers of failure. Sending in a swat team is some serious business, so what was it that they found? I'm not so sure there was anything because she didn't remark about it in her blog post. She mentions all of the questions they asked (about her travels, her family, etc.). There didn't seem to be anything remarkable there.

    In any case the decision to send in a swat team was a bad one, imo. If the three passengers really did want to blow something up, once they saw the swat team, they would know the jig is up and do whatever nefarious deed they had in mind.

    If they were innocent (and they were), sending in the swat team is still a horrible idea. You've got 100+ people in a tight and enclosed area along with kids - kids that do spontaneous things. This could have ended up very badly.

    And then there is the statement by the FBI agent -- " “It’s 9/11 and people are seeing ghosts. They are seeing things that aren’t there.” He said they had to act on a report of suspicious behavior, and this is what the reaction looks like." The way I read that was that at some point in all of this he knew there was nothing going on with these three people. At what point did they figure that out?
  4. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Great! The more recent feeds are highlighting the strip search. That will draw attention.
  5. exbayern

    exbayern Original Member

    It hasn't quite hit mainstream media online in western Europe, but the comments from Austrian readers about the jets being scrambled are interesting. The French articles I found focus on people being victims of the day and of circumstance.

    Considering that the Guardian has now picked up the story I expect that by tomorrow it will make it to non-English outlets here as well.
  6. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

  7. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    I know those people are out there, but I'm always surprised to see them. The ignorance they display is truly mind boggling.

    I took a glance at the article after I looked at the comments and saw this:

    "A Washington Post reporter later told Hebshi that she had been taken into custody by mistake -- that authorities had meant to detain only the two men."

    What?? After all of the data they had available to them, the swat team takes her in by mistake? :eek: This doesn't excuse how the two men were treated by a long shot, but what??

    This story just keeps getting worse and worse.
  8. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    This is where the lawyers are going to have a feeding frenzy and start buying new vacation homes when she sues -- the only search that they were legally empowered to do in this case was a Terry stop, and to be meaningful that must be done early. By having several interactions with them before they were searched, the whole concept of Terry stop was moot -- if they'd had weapons hidden on them, they'd already had several chances to use them.

    From what I've read, she's clamming up a bit and declining further media contact. My bet is that she already has an attorney engaged on this case.
    Lisa Simeone and Cartoon Peril like this.
  9. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    I already am. However, as airlines go, F9 is is already on thin ice financially. With an incident like this, we could push them through the ice and make a point.
  10. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    It really doesn't matter whether one person wins this or that case, and basically while I wish her well, I don't think it will matter much, win or lose. The security state is not founded on law, but rather on obedience and organized cruelty. If occasionally an obsolete provision of the former Constitution crops up here and there, well, pay off the loud mouth and proceed just as you were. Only Congress can stop this monster by pulling the funds, and Congress won't do that. All those planes that were diverted because of the climate of fear -- well, that is exactly what pervades Congress, and they are a cowardly bunch to begin with.
    Lisa Simeone and myadvice like this.
  11. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Before long some supine Congressman will introduce an immunity bill for this sort of thing.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  12. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    I doubt the toilet is out of camera range. Most likely it has a separate camera to record any attempt to flush contraband, including that concealed in body cavities.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  13. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Disagree. A big settlement will indeed have significant impact.
    jtodd, Fisher1949 and Cartoon Peril like this.
  14. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    How will Congress immunize them from a lack of customers????
    Lisa Simeone and Cartoon Peril like this.
  15. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Like to think so, but when's that going to happen? 3 years from now? The London police killed a Brazilian guy in an anti-terror maneuver because he was the wrong skin color. You'd think the police in this country would learn from that.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  16. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Ain't gonna be no lack of customers. Baa-baa-baaaaaa.
  17. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Shoshana has a date w/ the ACLU From CBS):

  18. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    You haven't been paying attention to the drop in travel since 9/11.
    barbell and Cartoon Peril like this.
  19. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    And is Frontier is lying. AP story:
  20. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    Great idea! A strong boycott effort of Frontier that took them down would send a message to the airlines and push them into this fight.
    barbell and Lisa Simeone like this.

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