Lawsuit Shoshana Hebshi: Some Real Shock and Awe: Racially Profiled and Cuffed in Detroit

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Lisa Simeone, Sep 12, 2011.

  1. darwin76

    darwin76 Original Member

    Despite a solid Republican/conservative voting record in my past, this incident reminds me of why I will not be voting for Rick Perry or any of the other "strong defense" neocon goons, regardless of whether they're running against Comrade Obama or a reanimated zombie robot Hitler.

    The aggressive, interventionist neoconservative philosophy views horrendous crimes like this as a cost of doing business, so to speak.

    As far as what happened here, an American citizen became the victim of terror on 9/11. Little did she expect it would be her own government doing the terrorizing.

    Make no mistake. Those candidates who see foreign policy as if it were a talking point in a fictional chess game (not a source of real blowback for real people with real lives) will never back down from interventionism because they always have to have an adventure and an opinion. As long as they're out there creating conflict they'll be telling us at home why we must be terrorized by our own government to be free of the terrorist blowback our government created. There will always be a threat because they will always be off on an agenda.

    Rick Perry will not back down from his interventionist foreign policy or his belief that it is our job to jump in the line of fire on behalf of Israel, at any cost. Perry is all in on our Middle East policy, which means things never go back to normal here at home.

    I've already committed to writing in Ron Paul, regardless of who gets the nomination, even though I know they won't let it go to Ron Paul, and even though I know he won't win. 2012 is a lost cause. I doubt we will elect a good candidate in 2012. It is the responsibility of those of us who want our liberty back to instead cast a vote of no confidence in the system. The best thing which can happen is an election riddled with third parties, split votes, and protest votes. We need a dismal vote percentage for whichever career political puppet takes office in 2013. Imagine if the stooge who takes office gets a vote percentage in the 30's. Even the most complicit media won't be able to hide the dysfunction or the lack of the people's consent any longer.

    For those who don't follow politics as much, the safest bet on the non-presidential races is to vote against every incumbent, choosing any third party if offered, or writing in a cartoon character where possible. Vote against the Washington culture which cultivated these abuses, not the specific (but replacable) talking heads currently running the show.

    This will be the new normal for everyone unless the people can demand a new breed of candidate from our broken political system. Whether Democrat or Republican, it's more politically expedient to allow things like this to happen then blame the other guy for the abuse than it is to worry about having to take the blame if an incident with a lower probability of mortality than lightning should strike a nation of over 300 million people during the course of a long four year term.

    I read that Boston police worked themselves stupid looking for a rented truck whose driver loaded it with barrels. If something so common to business and commerce can be the source of an idiot tip then we are all at risk to be the next victim of the security apparatus. Those of us who are white won't get it on the plane, since that treatment is reserved for brown people. We'll get ours elsewhere.

    The TSA may be a problem but it is also a symptom of a much larger problem. If Congress voted to "abolish" the TSA today then it would simply be replaced by a new name of goons wearing a different color shirt. The morons running the show would still wear the same number of stripes despite a different color shirt and different logo on the badge. Gropenfuhrer Pistole might be the only one out of a job. No, what we need is a change to the culture of fear and top-down edicts from political elites.
  2. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Now back to this: 3-4 years ago, we thought TSA was unassailable. Today, TSA is a laughing stock.

    We need to lobby at all levels to turn DHS into pariahs.

    1. Your city councilman
    2. The commissioners of local districts that might have a nexus with DHS (e.g. transit)
    3. Your county commissioners
    4. Your state legislators

    Any group that represents who might be targeted as suspiciously "brown" should be lobbied to join the effort. DKOS, IndyMedia, maybe protest sites (i ran across an enormous "why we protest" forum a couple days ago -- it's one of the largest XF boards out there).

    A lot of communities have balked at assisting with immigration controls, so this type of effort can work. The objective should be to turn DHS into pariahs non grata in as many units of local government as possible.

    Just remember one simple objective with two steps: DHS ---> pariahs ---> abolished

    When DHS goes byebye, TSA will probably go with it. :)
  3. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    The news story said something about people making out in the lav. Are these three the people? Or was that "making out" accusation damage control? Also, this is still an allegation. Strip searching under these conditions means you lose whatever immunity you might have had as an LEO. Even at the federal level.

    I'm inclined to see if this has corroboration.
  4. darwin76

    darwin76 Original Member

    And unfortunately, hundreds (maybe thousands) of participatory goons who are prepared to claim immunity/indemnity from such suits, leaving the mess to be cleaned up out of court by adding additional burden on working taxpayers responsible for funding the bureaucracies named in the suits.

    We need a comprehensive rewrite of the civil rights laws so perpetrators of crimes against innocents, under color of law, will be held personally responsible for their actions.

    Unfortunately such things only seem to happen when the higher-ups declare the need for a show trial, such as in the aftermath of the Rodney King riots (good decision, but Bush called for a show trial nonetheless).

    Law enforcement employees rarely face individual sanctions for their behavior, and when they do, the decision rarely reflects the merits of the case. This must change. We did away with the "just following orders" doctrine in 1945 because what starts as diaper searches of elderly citizens in wheelchairs progresses to brutal treatment like this, which never seems to stop there. It's time to hold domestic law enforcement accountable under that doctrine, whether they're adopting military tactics against human beings without so much as reasonable suspicion, or merely cuffing a kid for recording a cop and refusing to comply with the erasure demands of a bully.
    Doober likes this.
  5. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    But now perhaps any lawsuits will seek certification as class action suits and demand information about the other "50" incidents so they can notify the potential members of the class?
    Cartoon Peril likes this.
  6. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Unfortunately, the good texas Gov is very likely to become our next president, barring some intervention out of the blue. There's a reason he came out of nowhere to become the Rep favorite and that is that he has backing from those that matter. We can thank him for the defeat of the Texas anti TSA bill.

    Yet, he's on record with harsh things to say about the TSA's intrusiveness. If he's president, there will be nowhere to hide as he can stop it immediately.
    mikemey, darwin76 and Cartoon Peril like this.
  7. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    My understanding of the class action rule is that there has to be a strong identity of circumstances as well as a highly numerous class. Even fifty claims wouldn't be looked upon as highly numerous, and no doubt there's a disparate set of underlying circumstances in each one. I think it possible the FBI agent may have been exaggerating in a weird sympathy ploy.
  8. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    He won't do anything even if elected and there's a long way between now and then. In any case, the genius of the security state is that by the use of the term "terrorism" it manages to insulate itself from the effects of party politics.
    darwin76 likes this.
  9. darwin76

    darwin76 Original Member

    Honestly, we need better "protest" sites than Kos and IndyMedia. They're both hyperpartisan. What we have here is a nonpartisan issue of basic liberty affecting anyone with a probeable orifice or functioning fear circuits in their brain. If it becomes another R/D litmus test then Washington will play politics with it and nothing will ever change. We can't afford to lose broad popular support if the cause of justice becomes the pet cause of those who budle it with another agenda. We need more places like TU where everybody can come together for a common goal.

    As for making them pariahs, I'll share my humble story about making a good start.

    My neighbor works for the TSA. I do not speak with him and try to avoid eye contact. Recently, he came to my door asking if he could borrow the password to my wireless router. I told him I would not be helping him because he worked for the TSA, then told him to leave me alone. I am glad I was able to deny him basic human courtesies, because I know he would have done the same thing to my genitalia had I found myself in his line at the airport.

    The more of us who isolate and ignore these people the better.

    We must make it clear they are not one of us - they are an oppressor of us. Blackball them, address them as "comrade", whatever.

    I wish I owned a bar or restaurant so I could post a "NO TSA" policy on the door. TSA is not a protected class, unless one invokes mental handicap under the ADA. We don't have to serve them, because they sure as (expletive deleted) don't serve us.
    mikemey, Doober and phoebepontiac like this.
  10. lindabarlow

    lindabarlow Original Member

    This is one of the most appalling stories I have seen lately. Extremely well told, by the way, by the woman who suffered this absolutely disgusting treatment by the FBI and the DHS. Frankly I think these agents should be the ones arrested and detained for terrorist acts.
    barbell, darwin76 and Cartoon Peril like this.
  11. darwin76

    darwin76 Original Member

    I don't think he will stop it, because if he does, he'll be signing up for the blame from any blowback from his foreign misadventures. I think he's only standing up to the TSA because it's part of his carefully crafted media image, which relies on being the guy to "take on" Washington. If he's elected, he is Washington.

    Since his election is so likely, we should be maximizing the protest votes out there. Hopefully sufficient discontent will set the stage for a reform of this horribly broken, two party, winner take all system of controlled opposition.

    I posted this in another thread, but I guess it's relevant here, too.

    From George Carlin (obvious language warning)

    I think even if we change the political leadership and change the agency responsible the same abuses will still occur, because we have failed to change the culture of fear, apathy, ignorance, compliance, and authoritarianism which made it all possible.
  12. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    There was no warrant for this strip search as far as I can see. They could do this to ANYONE. But, I had to interrupt America's Got Talent ...
    darwin76 likes this.
  13. lindabarlow

    lindabarlow Original Member

    I tweeted the link to the woman's story. I am so infuriated that I tweeted it about 4 times, and also tweeted Obama that I'm not voting for him again because of the civil liberties abuses he has allowed to continue, and indeed, increase, during his "reign." I'll be staying home next election, for the first time since I started voting in 1972.
  14. A question, out of curiosity -- if, during a strip search, you willingly comply and take off your own clothes, does that mean you were not "strip searched"? Like, you did it yourself, so you consented willingly to the search?
    darwin76 and Cartoon Peril like this.
  15. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    No, acquiescence to authority is not "consent" in the eyes of the law. Now, this was not a TSA administrative search here, This was a law enforcement search. The usual TSA BS about admin searches won't cut it here.
  16. darwin76

    darwin76 Original Member

    I'd be interested in hearing a lawyer's response to this.

    I've heard enough discussions about refusing to consent to searches of homes and cars to know it's better to get them to err on the side of aggression and leave some physical evidence that you didn't verbally consent and prevent them from perjuring themselves to that effect.

    I know if they were trying to do this to me they'd end up performing what is closer to a sex assault than a voluntary disrobing at the doctor's. I can live with a bit of pain or a charge, but not losing a civil rights suit to the malfeasance of trained perjurers.
  17. darwin76

    darwin76 Original Member

    That's how it usually plays out in a court of law. The "perp" (as they see it) is almost always manipulated into giving consent, or being party to a set of facts which makes it easy for the sworn perjury officers to manufacture consent, and thus, submission and compliance. If the opposite were true, then consent searches of homes, vehicles, bags, pockets, and persons would (and should be) prohibited as a matter of statute, as no person who is truly aware of his or her rights would ever give informed consent to something which could even remotely be incriminating. No individual ever has anything to gain from voluntarily allowing a search, regardless of the circumstances, so why do so many people suffer the consequences of "consenting" to do so?

    The victim of this act of TSA terrorism was frightened and confused. She also answered many questions she was under no compulsion to answer and did so without an attorney present. She had rights which she didn't exercise, because the very act of an encounter with police is inherently coercive to a person of typical human condition.
    Cartoon Peril likes this.
  18. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    I'm not sure TSA was involved with this. Homeland Security and FBI yes.
    Rugape likes this.
  19. Darwin, you bring up another thing I've been wondering. She was very detailed in her account, and yet she makes no mention of having been read her Miranda rights. Are those just for the movies anymore? Or was she not technically under arrest somehow? They also asked her if she spoke English, so maybe they assumed she was an unlawful combatant or whatever?

    Also, I'm with you on the refusing to comply. I'd like to hope that I'd stand there passively in a crucifixion pose, singing the Star Spangled Banner while they took my clothes off against my consent. Though, I suppose you never know until you're in the situation how you'd really react.
    Cartoon Peril likes this.
  20. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Got one? Saying we need one doesn't matter a hill of beans if it's not there.

    KOS was very effective during its first election, less so now but maybe if they had a decent, viable candidate they could return to their (admittedly obnoxious) roots.

    IndyMedia is just a way to reach people, an "open source" publication where a lot of non-traditional (and usually biased) news sources can be heard.

    Neither one is my cup of tea, but they are there and should not be ignored when they might be useful. We conservatives don't have anything analogous to either.

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