Lawsuit Shoshana Hebshi: Some Real Shock and Awe: Racially Profiled and Cuffed in Detroit

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Lisa Simeone, Sep 12, 2011.

  1. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    Call me crazy, but I still think U.S. Citizens should respond with "Am I being detained, or am I free to go?" "I do not consent to any searches." + stalwart silence until legal counsel arrives.

    I don't think citizens should disrobe themselves for their assailants, or in any way participate in their own violation. I think memories of having been intimidated into cooperation actually heighten the long term sense of violation. To have resisted, even passively, would probably feel better than a memory of being intimidated into cooperation.

    The people who act as Janet Napolitano's eyes, ears and hands must be made to know themselves for what they are: assailants. Coerced cooperation of the victims keeps the assailants from the pain and shame of self-knowledge, while increasing the humiliation of their victims.

    The deafening silence from the mental health community speaks volumes. The trauma deliberately inflicted on U.S. citizens by the DHS is profound, and likely to have long term consequences.
  2. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    It drives me crazy with rage to know that more than 40% of the money the DHS uses to buy cooperation from local law enforcement and abuse citizens with impunity is borrowed against our futures.

    The nation is heavily in debt, people are unemployed, and the DHS is still permitted to operate their organized crime syndicate on the public dime.

    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  3. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    ...and "Stan Dubinsky" is an irredeemable moron. Perhaps the TSA should hire him.
  4. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    What these people were facing was not the government that we know. What they were facing was the the government of Abu Ghraib, of torture, of indefinite detention. There was quite a large likelihood that had they not cooperated and insisted on meeting with counsel first, no lawyer would ever have been permitted to meet them. They could have been hauled off to to a military prison somewhere and keep out of communication with their families. I'm quite sure that a refusal to strip would produced a tasering or a beating, followed by further charges of some kind or the other for refusing to do so.
    barbell, lindabarlow and Lisa Simeone like this.
  5. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    You're probably right. I am probably not brave enough to face all that. It's very, very scary.
    Cartoon Peril likes this.
  6. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Not to pick nits, you know I'm on your side, but this is the government we know. This is the government we've had since September 12, 2001.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again -- not for fellow TUGers, who already know it, but for others who might be reading this -- everyone who has ignored the alarm bells, who has defended the DHS/TSA and the entire apparatus of the National Security State, no matter how brutal its tactics, who has pooh-poohed the shredding of our rights, who has denigrated and dismissed those of us concerned about civil liberties, who has ignored if not cheered on such abuses when they were perpetrated on The Other -- everyone who has done these things is complicit.
    myadvice, barbell, jtodd and 4 others like this.
  7. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Who would be? This is NKVD type of conduct.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  8. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Those rules were promulgated by the DOJ, not endorsed by any court. Eric Holder might be trying to trash Miranda but the reality is that at some point he will have to get the courts (including the Supreme Court) to go along with it. That's unlikely. In the meantime, the little people get walked all over by emboldened goons operating under unconstitutional orders. Until somebody is actually charged & tried, you can't really challenge the rule changes.
  9. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

  10. lkkinetic

    lkkinetic Original Member

    My post on this is actually going viral among my Facebook friends, so I thought I'd share it here; at the very least it collects her original post, the Reason link, and the Atlantic link in one place:

    Authoritarian hypocrisy and "anything for security"
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  11. mikemey

    mikemey Original Member


    Thank you for your service, Marine. I feel your pain, I really do, because I suffer from the same regrets. I signed up for the Army in 1989 to defend my country and its way of life. Now I'm considering turning my back on it and leaving it.

    Semper Fi!
  12. darwin76

    darwin76 Original Member

    That's exactly why somebody needs to stand up. This horror continues because the sheeple either believe it doesn't happen at all or that it won't happen to them.

    What was Abu Ghraib? It was a matter of principle. It affected only foreign born "terrorists" engaged in hostilities abroad - a category into which none of the sheeple at home fit. We denounced the conduct there from our positions of comfort, not because we would be next, but because we saw it as a recreational form of mercy. We wanted to feel good about who we were, and we got to do it because it wasn't too inconvenient.

    As soon as the abuse happens here, most people "go along to get along." When was the last time you heard of someone who wasn't a liberty enthusiast refusing to consent to a police search? When was the last time you heard of someone responding to casual police contact with the standard three parter (Am I being detained or am I free to go? I don't consent to any searches. I'd like to speak with an attorney.)?

    People in general don't do that. They either want to be helpful or they believe it will go easier for them if they cooperate and disprove the suspicion which was never justified in the first place.

    We've become a nation which believes it's easier to let the ill-behaved dog finish humping our leg than correct the same problem which affects everybody else.

    The police state abuses will continue until they completely and totally jump the shark in a way which wakes the masses up. Searching the diapers of elderly veterans or groping children has failed to do so thus far. Somebody (and probably more than one somebody) is going to have to be beaten, tasered, stripped, held without counsel, harassed, abused, and threatened with terrorism charges for doing absolutely nothing wrong. We need a Rosa Parks.
    phoebepontiac and Lisa Simeone like this.
  13. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    I don't think so. We saw a similar thing with the Brandon Mayfield incident. The chances of false charges being brought against someone suspected of terrorism is very high indeed.
  14. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Alas, this is already going on, and has been, all over the country for some time. Only it's usually "undesirables" to whom it happens. Perhaps if enough middle-class, privileged people feel the wrath, more people will wake up. But I'm not holding my breath.
    phoebepontiac likes this.
  15. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Yeah, there have been many to whom this has happened already -- some serving life sentences -- only they usually have "foreign-sounding" last names, so most Americans don't give a sh*t.
  16. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    BRAVA, Lynne!
    lkkinetic likes this.
  17. NotaCriminal

    NotaCriminal Original Member

    jtodd and mikemey,

    I too am a former service member (Marines) and I am still sitting here stunned at what our country has become. I too am trying to figure out why I bothered to served - to uphold and defend the Constitution - when our government and the citizens make such a mockery of it. My nephew is serving in the Marines as well, and I'd just as soon he not die defending this crap. Clearly (for the moment anyway) I have nothing useful to say or add, but I did want to thank you both for the comments, as I feel very similarly and I am glad to see I am not the only one.

    Semper Fi, indeed.
  18. lkkinetic

    lkkinetic Original Member

  19. lkkinetic

    lkkinetic Original Member

    Mille grazie!
  20. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

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