Lawsuit Shoshana Hebshi: Some Real Shock and Awe: Racially Profiled and Cuffed in Detroit

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Lisa Simeone, Sep 12, 2011.

  1. IIRC, the panty bomber got access to a lawyer within a day or so, and once he lawyered up they got a lot less intel out of him. There was some criticism of this, since he was a foreign national and wasn't entitled to constitutional rights (not looking to debate that one, that's just what I remember being said). There was also a lot of criticism about trying 9/11 terrorists in a criminal court in NYC, remember that? Maybe this is a reaction to having been thought of as too "soft" on terror. Plus, there seems to have been an assumption by the cops that she was a foreigner, asking if she spoke English and all.

    Sorry I'm not better describing all this, I'm kind of dopey this morning. Didn't sleep well last night thinking about this one.
  2. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    I think the legal situation is this:
    1. One always has the right to remain silent.
    2. The Miranda advisals as to the right to remain silent are required whenever a person is (a) in custody and (b) under interrogation. This is known as the Miranda rule.
    3. There clearly is an exception to the Miranda rule for emergency situations. What is an emergency situation depends on the circumstances. It is the courts and not the executive branch that make the determination as to whether "terrorism" however defined, is an exception to Miranda under the emergency doctrine.
    4. Whether or not Miranda advisals are given, the right to remain silent remains.
    5. In a situation such as the arrest of the Detroit Three, there appears to have been a deliberate decision not to give Miranda rights, this is based on the report of the arrested woman who does not mention advice of rights.
    6. This apparently was made in reliance on the emergency doctrine, or the prior memorandum of the administration which I take to be an effort on their part to state when they believe the courts will recognize that an emergency exists.
    phoebepontiac likes this.
  3. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    This is so horrendously wrong on so many levels I can't accept it as even plausible. If this story is true, a massive lawsuit is called for and job terminations.
    phoebepontiac likes this.
  4. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    I'd wager it goes on more often, only we don't hear about those other cases because they're not written up by articulate middle-class bloggers with a built-in audience.

    For instance, we don't even know the names of the two Indian men who were abused along with her.
    myadvice, phoebepontiac and barbell like this.
  5. I was thinking about all the things the cops did that sounded on the surface like gestures of humanity toward Shoshana, but in fact were the cops making themselves feel better for terrorizing innocents:

    None of that makes it better that she was treated so roughly. At least the guy who was reading a book about airplanes got to just step off the plane and explain himself without handcuffs, detention and a strip-search.

    Also, am I reading it right, or did she end up having to drive from Detroit to Toledo after this? Crazy. ETA: Not that big a deal now that I look at the map. I thought Toledo was further south. Still sucks, though.
  6. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    These were exactly my thoughts as I read through it. Also the astounding number of comments on her blog that she should just suck it up and get over it because they were polite to her?

    What is wrong with people?

    It's like Lisa points out so many times - Milgram and Zimbardo all over again.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  7. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    I know. It makes the skin crawl. Entire books have been written about this. I can only say it's like Milgram, Zimbardo, Asch, Mengele, Goering, and the Stockholm Syndrome all rolled up into one.
  8. exbayern

    exbayern Original Member

    I read several posts on the internet that 'nothing happened' on 9/11 and that all the fear people had of flying on 9/11/11 was unfounded.

    Something definitely happened, and that fear cannot be overlooked if it creates situations like this.

    And I have to ask - do two 'Indian' men and a woman of middle Eastern background really create fear? Maybe I am just oblivious, but much of the world where I live and travel and vacation I am the one who stands out, as a tall, blonde, very white skinned woman. Two men from India (or Pakistan) and a woman from the middle East wouldn't bring a second look. (And that includes in much of Europe)
  9. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    exbayern, because the country has turned into a fear-mongering, bedwetting state (pardon the shameless mixed metaphors).
    mikemey likes this.
  10. exbayern

    exbayern Original Member

    I know the struggles my Saudi/Indian friend (with a very common Arabic name) faces when she travels, but Indian looking?

    I'm glad that is still odd enough to me to have to question that anyone would find it scary to have 'Indian looking' people on a plane.
    barbell and phoebepontiac like this.
  11. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Yes, they were trying to get her to forgive them.
  12. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Here of course we had the classic Zimbardo with the uniformed thug and the literally naked victim. Vile.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  13. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    White anglos soon will be a plurality -- not a majority -- in this country. If these thugs aren't reigned in & given a reality check, there may well be (expletive deleted) to pay in a few decades when the backlash comes.

    As I read her account of the interrogation, once she got to the part of the strip search, I kept picturing the SS (Gestapo) Headquarters in Köln, which is now open as a museum. The interrogation rooms were down in the sub-basement, where the screams couldn't be heard outside.
    Lisa Simeone and Cartoon Peril like this.
  14. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    They knew they were doing wrong, yet they did it. They grabbed a random woman and did this to her. Worse than rapists.
  15. myadvice

    myadvice Original Member

  16. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  17. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    The average American bonehead can't tell the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim by looking at them.

    My co-workers and I rotated bringing groceries to one of our Sikh co-workers for weeks after that. The local Sikh community locked themselves indoors for a while.
    Cartoon Peril and Lisa Simeone like this.
  18. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Exactly. Disgusting. The PR flack language, the benign "questioned." They weren't just questioned, they were handcuffed, harassed, and strip-searched.

    God, how do these people go to bed at night.
  19. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    They have no souls, and attend church only so their neighbors don't discover that little fact.
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  20. exbayern

    exbayern Original Member

    Thank you for posting that sad link - I may have vaguely heard about it but didn't recall the exact story.

    Know your enemy comes to mind. Sadly, Sikhism is often mistakenly equated with violence, just as Islam tends to be mistakenly equated with violence.

Share This Page