Terminal evacuated at LaGuardia [LGA]

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Mike, Apr 16, 2013.

  1. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    CBS Local New York: Port Authority: All-Clear After Evacuation At LaGuardia Airport

    The Port Authority says the all-clear has been given after the upper level of the central terminal building at LaGuardia Airport was evacuated Tuesday morning. Port Authority spokesman Ron Marisco told the Associated Press the cause of concern were wires protruding from a fluorescent light fixture. According to the Port Authority, someone in the food court called 911 around 10:30 a.m., triggering the evacuation.
     
  2. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Wires and a light fixture, go figure.
     
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  3. I wonder how long those wires had been protruding? Probably a while.
     
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  4. Frank

    Frank Original Member

    Funny how people notice wires hanging from a light fixture but completely ignore the strange bag that suddenly appeared on a curb edge...
     
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  5. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Most of us here in America are not conditioned to look for thing that are outside the norm - as opposed to say, Israelis. In Israel, if you dropped a bag on a street corner, they would be on it like white on rice, 5 minutes or so, tops. I seem to recall a test done in the top 30 or so countries (don't ask for the link, I just spent 10 minutes or so trying to find it, and I can not) involved in terror incidents, in the case of public awareness. They took random items and placed them on benches, street corners and in malls and several other high traffic locations, and Israel almost uniformly notified someone in 5 minutes or less - the US, not so much. The US routinely brought up the end of the list with no average time given in many locations because the bags were completely unnoticed during the testing time frame. This is not an indictment on the US public, quite the contrary, we have largely (up until here recently, say the last 15 years or so) been a "if it ain't mine, leave it alone" type of society. We have not had the intensely focused stresses of having to be vigilant for "bad" things in our streets like many other countries have. Wires hanging from a light fixture are something that is not really out of the norm, especially if there was some repair work going on in the area.

    Things are beginning to happen in our country that we are not used to, and if it continues, this type of knee jerk response to mundane items will be part of the growing pains that come with getting accustomed to the reality of bad things being around. It is a sad statement on what is happening, but then again, I can remember that my Grandmother never locked her doors or car (actually she left the car keys in the ignition until I was a teenager) until the 80s. It is simply a reflection of things changing based on events that are happening.
     
  6. Frank

    Frank Original Member

    Leave it alone, because there are cops (particularly NYPD) who leave such things specifically to entrap and arrest.
     
  7. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    Most people I know haven't fallen for the fear mongering - except when they want to travel by air - and are not seeing the boogeyman behind every bush.
     
  8. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    . That's because the danger level is nothing like it is in Israel, nor will it ever be.

    There is no need for such vigilance, so there is no such vigilance. IF there is ever such a need, the vigilance will follow-sh*t Rugape, that is simply basic human behavior. Trying to develop a behavior where it is not needed and just gets in the way of normal human life is p*ss*ng in the wind or worse.

    What things? An isolated case of two losers planting two small bombs and shutting down a large city for a whole day or better?

    Yes, things *are* happening, but out of the view of American citizens, in the dark, and conducted by their own government. The irreparable damage done to our economy by government mismanagement and interference, coupled with misinformation being fed to the people about our real economic circumstances, the direct manipulation of the markets (both to further enrich the few and to hide our dire straits from the citizens), all in direct contradiction of explicit laws in these markets. Not to mention the erection of a police state made obvious in Boston, complete with steps taken to make it legally plausible to strip people of their Constitutional protections. Lindsay Graham's "law of war" can be applied to any of us posting here. There is no Law restraining institutional Power any more. We are in completely deep sh*t.

    The enemy is not two losers from Chechnya, Rugape. That is not where the threat is.
     
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  9. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Oh, but there is such a need. It's just not your need, nor is it mine.

    That need belongs to those people who without a pervading sense of fear in the populace would simply lose their "jobs" and be forced to learn something useful to do with their lives - like TSA "employees," for example. They have a deep-seated need for everyone else to be afraid, so they can pretend to make people "safer."
     
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  10. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    I can understand and agree with some of what you say here. The level of vigilance in this country is lower because there is not currently a need for the higher levels. It is not simply the two losers in Boston that are happening as well, the mass shootings, the increase in violent crimes in some areas all point to a need for more vigilance, but not Israeli style (did that make sense? I am having a bit of trouble putting my thoughts into words today). Each person should always be aware of their surroundings and notice things that are out of the norm - not necessarily so you can report someone, simply so you can be prepared for something different. I tend to agree that the level of threat here is not ever going to be the same as it is in Israel, or any number of other countries.

    I also agree that Grahams comments were a bit out of line according to the normal pattern of thinking here. I will grant the exigent circumstances waiver in the interest of public safety - only to the extent that was needed to make certain that there were no other bombs or threats to the public. Past that point, I think the kid should be mirandized and processed with no other exceptions. The "Law of War" belongs on battlefields and should be reserved for situations in which it clearly applies - and this is not necessarily a situation in which it applies. Even if this turns out to be terrorist of the month from a foriegn country, you can always change the process once more information becomes available and causes that title to be applicable.
     
  11. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    Come on, West, if this statement isn't fear-mongering, I don't know what is:

    A total waste of energy, energy that could be directed to useful activities.
     
  12. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    It is not fear mongering at all, it is something that was instilled in me at a young age by my parents, and reinforced by my time in the Army and since then. As I stated before, it is not necessarily to report someone, it is simply so you will be prepared for something different. I have a friend that is pretty much the poster child for awareness. We go have a beer somewhere, and he can recall how many cars are in the lot, what cars they are, who is in the place, which ones are grouped together and which ones are in a bad mood, which ones are spoiling for a fight and which ones are out looking for a date - all while keeping up with the football game (it is like going to a bar with Jason Bourne for Petes sake). I do not advocate that level of awareness, but if something is out of place in your normal walk of life, it bears at least a cursory awareness of it.
     
  13. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    It's not, really. Situational awareness is common sense - which is actually pretty rare among TSA employees.

    It does NOT align with idiocy like "behavioral detection."
     
  14. That kind of awareness is cool. "See something, say something" is not that, because the people seeing something/saying something are not trained, critically thinking observers, they are average shmucks freaking out because somebody with dark skin went to the bathroom on a plane.
     
  15. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Weird things are happening, but I thought crime rates were declining. Weird crimes, perhaps not. Over 90% of the mass shooters we've had were on psychotropic drugs, methinks that would be a fruitful avenue of study, rather than simple gun possession..

    I agree, people need to be alert, simply for their own personal safety. Clearly, that is not always going to be sufficient. In the current case, these two folks looked/acted like anyone else in the crowd. Dropping the backpack and moving away could have taken only a few seconds, not giving sufficient reaction time in any case. Oddly enough, there were explosives dogs in the area, I wonder if the use of a pressure cooker inhibits their effectiveness. that wouldn't be a good thing.

    I agree and that is what the authorities plan, if this kid survives at all. I don't know what is wrong with Graham. He's been saying these types of things ever since he supported those awful unlimited detentions of US citizens in the NDAA of 2011. Either he's got a screw loose or there's something bad in the water out in southern carolina.

    Apologies for the unclarity of my previous rant. Basically, our situation is that we've come to a crisis, thanks to the central planners in Washington, where our economy continues to spiral down, and our currency is failing. It is quickly losing its reserve status, because it is not being used in a huge and growing swath of foreign transactions, and even as the petro dollar, is becoming replaced by the petro-yuan, chinese currency. Major US banks write most of the credit default swaps (bankers' insurance) on banks in the eurozone, so when there are failures such as the ongoing ones in Cyprus, Spain, Greece, Italy, etc., they are on the hook, and they do not pay out 1-to-1 on failures: they pay out 10 or 20 to 1 to whoever bought the swaps. So the timer is ticking for these banks as well. The Bank of International Settlements (the central bank of all central banks, in Switzerland) has issued a protocol recently, to which every G8 country has agreed, that in case of a bank failure in a crisis, the bank does not liquidate and depositors get top priority (the old, honest way), but the bank stays solvent, management stays in place, bondholders keep their positions, but funds are taken out of depositor money to satisfy shortfalls!

    Desperation is setting in. Just over a week ago, in an effort to prop up the dollar, one entity, most likely JP Morgan and Chase, which carries out government policy in the precious metals area, in an unprecedented move, sold 500 tons of "paper gold" (a naked short without any gold backing it--ie, selling gold they didn't have), in a matter of minutes, in a manner designed to start a downward cascade through known sell stops by other traders in the gold market, thus artificially collapsing the gold (and silver) price. This is highly illegal (makes no difference if the government does it or not, it's illegal for all), not only for the quantity of contracts sold, but the manner of selling; it's called manipulating the market. If I did this, I'd get a call from the SEC within thirty minutes, with serious federal charges to follow quickly. This move destroys other legitimate participants in the market, destroys communities and individuals that produce the product, down to individual miners. People lose their livelihoods over this. The result has been a global run on physical gold the past week--you cannot find any to buy--there are now shortages: clearly folks are dumping dollars to buy gold, the opposite of what was intended.

    My rambling point is simply this: the central planners are scared stiff. Nothing they do works, but only makes things worse. They think control (THEIR control) is what holds things together, so the impending loss of control scares them silly: thus they see terrorists and revolutionaries behind every tree. They hear the resentment voiced against Washington and think that translates into potential terrorism all across the country. The gun toting NRA types will be an advancing horde...yada yada.

    The truth is, nobody is more a stick-up-the-butt law observing type than a typical NRA clown. And if things do collapse, yes, there will be chaos and violence, but in the main, Americans know how to work together, and they will work together to secure needed food supplies and other things. They will do things as they did before the emergence of the central planners. So the real threat is not from the people, it is from those in charge, desperate to continue their hold on power.
     
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  16. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I'm a NRA Clown.
     
  17. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    I am too. I know whereof I speak.
     
  18. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    My wife & I are both NRA clowns for life.
     
  19. RB

    RB Founding Member

    We can start the lifer clown car.
     
  20. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

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