The ACLU on Obama and core liberties

Discussion in 'Civil Rights & Privacy' started by Lisa Simeone, Sep 8, 2011.

  1. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    The ACLU on Obama and core liberties
    by Glenn Greenwald

    Not surprisingly, Obama gets an "F." Excerpt:
     
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  2. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    What I find most shocking is that Obama seems to have completely abandoned his core principles (as he described them).

    From that same piece:



    What is it about people in power that they become so fearful, so out of touch, that they find "terrorists" behind every corner.
     
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  3. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    barbell, I now think Obama's "core principles as he described them" were a sham. I was bamboozled; I admit it. It was my own fault. I should've done due diligence on his voting record in the Senate. But I didn't. I wanted badly to believe, after the horrors of the Bush administration, that this guy was different. People I met two years later, longtime political activists, told me they had scoffed at him. They knew he was a shill. They just didn't realize how dangerous a shill.
     
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  4. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    I, too, was bamboozled.

    A very close friend would fit right in with some of our discussions here. However, when I broached the subject of Obama not being who he said he was, she went right back to defending him. She is black. She is proud to be black. There is a great momentum within the black community to defend "their own." There is also a great and very real "white guilt" among the progressives here in the South in defending him.

    There was something about him that just didn't sit right with me, and I had been traditionally a McCain supporter as an Arizona resident and part line crosser. But when McCain started getting nutty, and then trotted out Palin, I just couldn't go that route.

    If nothing else, the last 2 years have shown me, unequivocally, that the only thing that changes in the White House is the face of the person in it.
     
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  5. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Sadly, true.
     
  6. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    For me the problem was the Cheney Administration, and then when McCain choose Palin, well that was it for me. What is I think worse about Obama is that there seems to be a fierce thoroughness with the way the internal measures of state security are applied. There may be a few changes around the edges but the core deprivation of freedom, that is, the climate of fear, continues to be built up by the O government.
     
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  7. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    You guys shouldn't beat yourselves up about Obama. He never talked about his views on civil rights, and journalists didn't press him on it.

    The best indicator of how he might be in office was how he voted on the FISA amendments in July '08. He voted to strip immunity from the telecommunications companies that had engaged in illegal wiretapping - and he promised to filibuster if immunity got back in. Good for him. But then the immunity amendment got stripped out (which meant the companies could be on the hook for their illegal acts), and immunity was back in (the companies would be free and clear). Not only did he not filibuster, he ended up voting for it. I was hugely disappointed.

    So I had a clue. If he was able to vote to give companies immunity, then I was pretty sure he wasn't going to be great on other civil liberties issues. And like I said, he never really discussed civil liberties with any specificity. Even knowing that, I voted for him anyway. Because the alternative was horrible. Palin? Really? She's like a sick joke.

    So I fretted about it, but in the end I voted for Obama. I was sill hoping he would surprise me and be better on civil rights, but nope, he wasn't. But he's been a big disappointment.
     
  8. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    The idiot organization Move On printed up a poster calling General Petreas "General Betray Us". Get it? Ha ha. Anyway, rather than ignore this imbecility, the Senate of the United States, interrupted its busy schedule of renaming post offices and voted to condemn Move On for this silliness. And of course, instead of asking whether this was worthy of the Senate's time, O voted for it.
     
  9. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    He really surprised me. I never thought he was going to be great - but I thought he would be better than he turned out to be.
     
  10. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Sunny Goth, yeah, it was the FISA vote that should've tipped me off.
     
  11. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Well, we'll see. Over at DKOS where I do my political blogging there's an ongoing argument about this, it roughly breaks down between loyalists and radicals, who in true People's Front of Judea fashion are more at odds with each other than with their common enemy, the Judean People's Front the Republicans. But in any case, the whole issue of aircraft and transportation security in general seems to have moved into some kind of holy shrine beyond the reach of ordinary politics.
     
  12. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    I have no patience with the people at Daily Kos. They're mostly Obama & Dem apologists. Nothing is too corrupt or heinous for them, now that "their" guy is in office.
     
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  13. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    There is that tendency, as it turns out the political blog is an excellent tool to attack a regime, but not a very good one to defend it. Usually I just hide in the weeds, they've had something over 300,000 members, it's really a huge site, I think the biggest political blog.)
     
  14. RB

    RB Founding Member

    What set you folks up that voted for Obama was the liberal press not doing due regard and not fairly reporting Obama issues. I don't recall one in depth article about Obama before the election.

    I didn't vote for him, I will not vote for him next time around, and hopefully there will be some real choices available.
     
  15. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    I read several purportedly in-depth articles about him before the election, including in the NYT, the WaPo, and the New Yorker (I know -- you'll say "liberal press"). But it was mostly my own blindness and wishful thinking and just plain desperation. As I've said before in these parts, I'm way left of liberal, so it's not as if I expected Obama to be anything but centrist. But in my view, he's not even that. (Then again, also as I've said, the left/right dichotomy increasingly makes little sense. Look how many of us at TUG are all over the political map. Yet we all agree on civil liberties.)

    I don't care who runs from either of the two major parties -- it's six of one, half-dozen of another. They're all, in my opinion, owned by corporate lobbyists. I don't believe we have a democracy, a democratic republic, blah blah blah. I believe we have a plutocracy. I'll write in the name of one of my cats before I'll vote for whomever the Dems or Repubs put up for election.
     
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  16. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Articles I read pre-election were for the most part favorable and did not really dig into Obama's history.
     
  17. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    I'm pretty much where you are on the political spectrum, and yeah, it was wishful thinking. We wanted so much to be done with the Bush years, and everything that went with that, so that when it came to a vote, love him, hate him, we were all going to vote for Obama. As for what Obama is (republican/democrat), I view him as a corporatist, as you do.

    As for the privacy/surveillance - I can't tell you how many meetings I've been at where the attendance looks like TUG. Privacy is the place where you'll see far left and far right come together - well, so long as you leave abortion politics out of it. ;) We get to agreement from different places, but we get there. I actually think those on the right are better on privacy than those on the left. Think Perry and Chaffetz for example. And Bob Barr (remember him?) and Ron Paul. I'd never vote for any of these guys, mind you, but they're good on privacy. :p

    I don't know yet what I'm going to do.
     
  18. RB

    RB Founding Member

    If the Dems are smart they will run someone against Obama. That is the only way the Dems will hold the White House.
     
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  19. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    It certainly couldn't hurt. ;)
     
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  20. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Totally agree. But they won't. I get pilloried by Dems every time I bring this up (they are, by the way, what I call "Alphabet Voters" -- people who vote based purely on which letter comes after a candidate's name -- "R" or "D"). There are many of us out here who are urging this. But it'll never happen.
     

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