The bell tolls for TSA.

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by AngryMiller, Sep 12, 2011.

  1. rockon

    rockon Original Member

    What kind of parent? Exactly the kind you don't want touching your child. The kind of parent who touches children, including his/her own children, that's the kind of parent who takes this job.

    Congress is still talking, but I haven't seen anything positive happen. Mica and Chaffetz talk and Chaffetz has a committee, but I don't see him fighting back when TSA refuses to show up or respond to calls for information.

    Have either one of these guys introduced legislation to try to curb TSA?

    Nope, thought not.
  2. rockon

    rockon Original Member

    First question I want to ask any of those fools is 'when is the last time you flew?'

    Amazing how many people have strong feelings about airport security when they never fly.

    For those that do fly, don't blather to me about the current experience unless you have flown since last fall and you have been selected for AIT and you have had a grope. Then I'll start to listen to you.
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  3. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    The Baltimore Sun is a rag that panders to the local low level Federal worker. There is a large population of worthless SSA employees in the Baltimore area and things are so bad that some employees rob other employees while at work!

    Even WaPo is more balanced and often on the offensive against TSA, which is amusing in that the articles are often similar to those in it's conservative rival, the Washington Times.

    All in all, most of the comments that I have seen recently from papers all around the country tend to fall heavily against TSA and the Sun may be one of the few remaining safe havens for TSA trolls.
    KrazyKat likes this.
  4. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    My anectdotal evidence agrees with Fisher1949, and I believe boggie dog has made note of it, as well.

    Before my run this evening I had just logged off of msn's content of the "flying while brown" F9 DEN-DTW incident. There were nearly 4000 comments. A great number of them were pro-TSA, but the vast majority were anti, which we weren't seeing even 6 months ago.
    KrazyKat likes this.
  5. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Yes, and I think the random seizure, handcuffing, interrogating, strip search and cavity search of this young lady bothers even the pro-TSA/DHS crowd. They're whistling loudly in the graveyard. The cure is looking more and more awful than the disease.
  6. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Mica's comments have been picked up all over, which should be encouraged. Nice title to this editorial in Investor's Business Daily: "End of Its Grope?"
    Just think what ending groping would save.
  7. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    In the Techdirt summary of Mica's remarks my favorite comment was from Lobo Santo, who said:
    Just think what the hematite would save. ;)
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  8. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    I wish. Unfortunately, millions of them are still saying, "tough (expletive deleted); deal with it."

    For some insight on that, go over to the "What's On Your Mind?" forum and see what I just posted.
  9. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Gawd, I love this. This is exactly the logic out there. There's a thing going around the intertubes about a magical amulet that conveys the same thing. But as we know, the AFS folks don't care. They would wear a magic amulet and carry a piece of hematite if Napolitano and Pistole told them that would keep them safe.
    barbell likes this.
  10. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Disagree. They don't know either of their names. They assume the government is acting rationally. Steering the "sheep" public is much more valuable than deriding it. Anyway, the hematite would save tons of money, so should be encouraged.;)

    I think the point of this thread is important and we should be amplifying any high profile remarks like these, particularly ones that are so broadly critical, regardless of the source--not to puff up the pol, but their point. I agree with AngryMiller, that from Mica, this heralds that the TSA's zenith has been reached.
  11. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    I'm all for amplifying, but again, Mica stands to profit, personally and politically, from replacing TSA with private security goons. A goon is still a goon (pace Herman Hupfeld), no matter how/by whom he's paid.

    As for educating the public, this:
    How facts backfire
    Researchers discover a surprising threat to democracy: our brains
  12. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    People don't need to be educated, they need to be moved (and not just transported):).
    That's the misconception: that facts propel themselves into action.
    Which is why it's important to communicate messages that will be heard, that resonate with beliefs and images that people personally hold. The Democrats don't get it. The Tea Partiers do. A pox on all their stupid as far as I'm concerned. But facts about government waste should be tailored to the audience. Facts by themselves don't persuade. Images do.
  13. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    It's so interesting that you say this. Because after all my arguments, presentation of facts, empirical evidence, etc. failed to convince my former fellow writers at the Cogblog (and I had already been using images, too), I did one post that dispensed with text entirely and simply presented a set of images. I called it Life in the USA: A Photo Album. I thought it was a powerful argument. And it was -- but only for those already on our side. I got no end of (expletive deleted) for it from the heads-in-the-sanders.
  14. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    I'm sure it was very powerful. I guess I'm thinking about communicating to America at-large, and that needs to be a lot more like a truck commercial than an expose.
    What I understand about it is that there needs to be a narrative that people personally relate to without effort--and that they connect to on an emotional level. If I was the national campaign manager, I'd "go negative" on the It-Keeps-Us-Safer story, (safer than what?), which is the lynchpin to people reflexively accepting what goes on. Then the person listening needs to be made the hero of the story too: 'Because of [profile in courage, family, etc] their actions, Mica [at one end of a range of people down to the local level] who, once supportive, now believe in ______ (that looks like this...).' That technique is used all the time as anecdotes in stump speeches.
    Communicating with annoying liberal academics I can't help you with.:)
  15. AngryMiller

    AngryMiller Original Member

    Last time I flew? Tuesday. Flying again today on Friday. Last grope? Friday last week. Before that? Wednesday of last week.

    When I first started complaining people thought it was whining/crazy/unpatriotic. Now they've seen granny getting what I usually got for years and they gripe about granny getting the same treatment. Just where the (expletive deleted) were the complainers when I was getting the treatment from TSA? I'm a dumpy, nearly 60 yr old white guy. Did they think I was an easy mark because of that? Did I deserve getting the treatment because of my job? Angry doesn't begin to describe this mess.

    Sorry for the above rant. People need to listen to those who do things the most often. They are the experts.
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  16. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    AngryMiller, I'm still getting the "whining/crazy/unpatriotic" (expletive deleted). As I imagine others at TUG are as well.

    Hubby just flew off this morning to the west coast, a trip on which I would have, in the old days, accompanied him. And no, he didn't have to do it; it's not work related.

    As long as people continue to fly, continue to support the airlines, this will continue. Honestly, I see no end to it.
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  17. AngryMiller

    AngryMiller Original Member

    Sorry that happens to you. The non-flyers have no dog in this fight and should shut up until they've gotten the full treatment (and I am not talking about walking through either the metal detector or the nude-o-scope).
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  18. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I believe owners of the property (airplanes and airports) should determine and apply the level of security they feel is needed to protect their investment and customers. The downside to that is that a private security program could end up being more stringent than the government (not likely). I see no reason why the federal government should have its fingers in this pie.

    edit to add: I would not oppose government having a group who pass on security related information/intelligence to the airport/airline authorities. That to me is a function of government.
  19. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    One of my relatives currently isn't speaking to me over that particular argument.

    "I see nothing unpatriotic about refusing to do exactly what a terrorist wants me to do - be afraid."
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  20. AngryMiller

    AngryMiller Original Member

    Fear? Not so much. Loathing? Megatonnage of that. Have said, still say, and will say that the only terrorists I've ever personally encountered at airports, worked for the US government as security screeners. Until the situation changes that is my attitude towards the out of control, answerable to no one DHS/TSA.
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