The Blue-Shirted Gestapo ... May They Rot in (expletive deleted)

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Mike, Sep 3, 2011.

  1. RB

    RB Founding Member

    What are these changes you speak of?

    I think TSA needs to take the law enforcement aspect completely out of screening. We are not criminals, spies, drug mules and such and even if we were one of those things it does not compromise the safety of an airplane.

    TSA Enhanced Pat Downs, Electronic Strip Searches, being forced into a closed room for an Administrative Search all exceed TSA's mandate.

    People (TSA employees) who do these things are the criminals who need to be locked up!
  2. VH-RMD

    VH-RMD Original Member

    Liars. Cheats. Thieves. Every single individual who derives income from the agency - without an exception...
  3. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    They're probably "SSI." That's the typical excuse the blue-shirted cockroaches hide under.
  4. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    There should be NO touching of the breast. It is a sexual organ and is out of bounds. who gives a crap about the nipple? as if that is any diminution of the invasion you are performing.

    so you kinda "trace around" the genitals. Just teasing us, I guess. And for what cause? this is simply despicable, and will be and will be considered to be by everyone with any sense until we make you stop.

    I know plenty of military people that would like to bayonet you folks for doing this. And I've yet to find an LEO that didn't consider what you do in that rubdown to be ridiculous. Maybe the folks who ran Abu Graib consider the TSA grope innocuous.

    Because some folks in some parts of the world are nasty, this justifies your feeling of pubic bones and inner thighs up to sex organs and touching sex organs of American passerngers? The logic escapes me.
    barbell and Cartoon Peril like this.
  5. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    No, EPIC is challenging both. In round #1 EPIC won on the procedure, lost on the policy. They are asking the court to reconsider the policy issue. If the reconsideration fails, the court's decision already provides a very clear path for their next challenge to the policy.
  6. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    I'll save you a seat my table. We'll both be in the same boat at that point.
  7. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Military service does not guarantee civil virtue. Mussolini served 9 months in the trenches, and Charlie Manson was in the Coast Guard.
  8. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    The only law enforcement aspect of TSA are the Federal Air Marshals. The only intelligence aspect are the intelligence staff officers who are really liaison officers who take watered-down information given to them by the FBI and other agencies and pass them along as "classified" information. (My apologies, this is my former life's arrogance showing.) TSA does exactly as advertised: screens for dangerous items.

    LOL. OK. If you say so. Been over a year and not one charge has been levied against any TSOs for following TSA SOP.
  9. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    That's a matter of interpretation, but I'll accept yours. I see it as EPIC challenging on two fronts, the first one was thrown out because it had no merit. All they had was the second one (procedure).

    Sorry, friend, but I think EPIC's cause is a lost one.
  10. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    I wasn't ever impressed with epic's suit. I think Jon's (affection)is a more head-on attack. And the federal courts after all, top to bottom are biased in favor of the federal apparatus unless the other branches tred upon something they've explicitly ruled on, infringing on their turf. They obviously aren't going to address this issue on any timely basis; they are waiting for the political process to do what it does on backing off the TSA (or not backing off the TSA if nobody cares). If they do ANYTHING, they'll step in on this only after the issue has been decided and/or after alternatives have been found Nobody should pin strong hopes on that particular institution. Not unless you're a drug dealer whose stash got impounded by a local (non federal) cop by some slightly less than legal means--which is why so many are looking elsewhere for remedies on issues like these.

    And the political process is working. The TSA has become a joke, the butt of jokes and derision, states are acting against it, Congress has turned against it in budget terms, and they know they are skating on thinning ice. They are moving away from pervs in the booth to ATR and are going to a different way (risk based whatever that materializes to be) of looking at screening ONLY because they have clear and pressing and insistent demand from the public that they change their behavior. The TSO folks know this, they know the people don't want them in their crotches and that is a major reason, other than personal integrity and honor, that so many of them appear to not do as Bart would have them do, and back off from the personal violations. They are not going as high up the crotch in many observed cases, and stay away not only from Bart's nipples, but go around the breasts avoiding them.
    Doober and Cartoon Peril like this.
  11. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    The TSA has been a joke since its inception. It's just that more and more people are realizing that fact.
    barbell and Lisa Simeone like this.
  12. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Sigh, so much willful ignorance, so little time.

    As we've pointed out, again and again and again and again, it doesn't matter if it's "standard." Whether it's "standard" or not, reality is what it is. Brush up on your Philip Zimbardo, Stanley Milgram, Solomon Asch, and Martin Niemöller, Bart.
    barbell likes this.
  13. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Seems I remember reading about two TSA employees who have charges pending because they violated a persons Constitutional rights. Or doesn't that count?

    FAM's are not the only law enforcement aspect of TSA. Are there not a few LEO types withing the the Screener divisions? Something like AFSD(LEO)? How about the TSA idiots who damaged several airplanes a few years back? Were they not TSI's or some such and held LEO status? How about ASO's, do they not work for TSA? Of course if TSA didn't dress up its screeners with fake cop badges it would be much easier to tell who was LEO and who was not, perhaps just another layer of TSA lies, eh?

    But what I was referring to is the screening actions that exceed the limits of Administrative Search doctrine, such as reading the contents of peoples wallets, counting their money and other such acts. Are you going to attempt and convince me that those acts are sanctioned under Administrative Search protocols?

    As we have seen throughout the history of the United States the courts have reversed directions on several questions. Given time and the continued violations of peoples rights by TSA I think a reversal of opinion will come.
    Doober, barbell and Lisa Simeone like this.
  14. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    "Welcome to employment in the TSA. Note that in writing our public vision statement says we 'respect' people. (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink..,)"

    The TSA's public statements do not match their actions.
  15. RB

    RB Founding Member

    TSA's "Mission, Vision, and Core Values" statement is nothing but empty words and violated daily all across TSA.

    When an organization has no honor they will do anything to force their will on others. TSA is doing so every day!
    barbell likes this.
  16. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    I'd be interested in a link so I could read that if you're talking about TSOs performing their screening duties at a checkpoint or checked baggage location.

    The AFSD(LEO) is the staff weenie who liasons with federal agencies. I don't think that individual has any law enforcement authority; in other words, I don't think that individual can arrest anyone for committing any crime. But to be honest with you, this is way out of my range. I know this is a staff position. As for the TSIs, they are inspectors. They carry badges, but they do not have any arrest authority.

    No, they are not. And that's not how I train them.

    I disagree. There have been no violations by TSA policy. All of the court decisions against TSA occurred whenever a TSO failed to follow correct TSA policy.
  17. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Your agency of course won't tell us what TSA policy is so we can judge for ourselves. Terror! Terror!
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  18. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    Actually, some of the PDF files of court decisions I've read are pretty specific in regards to TSA policy.
  19. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Be curious to see any links. So far, only policy I've seen is the manual the idiots at headquarters posted on line for months.
  20. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Where's the PDF of the current official "pat-down" procedure, so passengers can tell when the TSA clerk has overstepped the official boundaries?

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