The Blue-Shirted Gestapo ... May They Rot in (expletive deleted)

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Mike, Sep 3, 2011.

  1. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Bart's view of the SOP and the reasonableness of the touching areas are troubling and to be rejected by decent people.
    Doober and Lisa Simeone like this.
  2. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Replace "Bart" with "Every TSA employee."
  3. AngryMiller

    AngryMiller Original Member

    I've been 'patted' down so hard that I went up on my toes to avoid pain(the guy made full contact with my perineum). This is part of your SOP Bart? There is no way any passenger should be subjected to this mess unless there is probable cause.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  4. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Having been frisked by actual police officers with probable cause (wearing the same clothes and having the same general description as a well-armed robber from the incident two blocks away) I think it's safe to say that any "pat-down" that causes pain should be considered at least battery.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  5. VH-RMD

    VH-RMD Original Member

    not considered, it IS battery...
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  6. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    Did boggie dog tape "kick me" to my back again?
    Fisher1949 and Cartoon Peril like this.
  7. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    It should be embroidered on the back of every TSA uniform shirt by the supplier.
    Doober, DeafBlonde and Lisa Simeone like this.
  8. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    I, too, have been frisked by the police, and it is nothing like what the TSA is doing. The TSA doesn't frisk. The TSA gropes.
    nachtnebel likes this.
  9. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    agree. I've been frisked at the courthouse as part of security measures as a juror and it sickens me when tsa people claim that they're doing the same thing.
  10. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Bart, I've been hard on you, but I have to say I admire the way you keep coming back for more. What is the point on a personal level? You aren't going to change anybody's mind on this site.
  11. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    I don't expect to. Or to put it another way, if a few typed words is enough to change anyone's mind, then there's something wrong with that person. Open them up to a different opinion is one thing, but to change it on just these words alone? I'd say that person didn't have much of a strong position to begin with.

    There are some genuinely great nuggets I find here that I can take back to the classroom. I'm Socratic in my methods, so I'll introduce the topic; get the predictable reactions then open it up to further discussion. The officers usually arrive at my teaching point on their own. More gooder that way than just lecturing a teaching point.
    NotaCriminal and Cartoon Peril like this.
  12. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    You might look at the items in sight threads. Seems to me that it's very unwise from a security point of view to allow a situation where a passenger intent on harm could plausibly claim that an item was planted in his/her property when it was out of the line of sight.
  13. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    We try to take it off [again] every time you pass "Go", but sometimes we get distracted. Eventually he'll run out of stickers.
    NotaCriminal and Bart like this.
  14. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I don't think I have said anything about you other than your unwillingness to believe that bad things are happening at TSA checkpoints and the bad actors are people you and others with the same role train.

    I have to question the effectiveness of TSA training, the effectiveness of TSA trainers, and the ability of the typical TSA employee to learn.
  15. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    Oh, you want to be serious. OK. Humor off. Thought you might get a "kick" out my comment.

    I think TSA training is evolving, just as any other endeavor. In some ways, I think it's more effective than military training but not in the way that you or others may interpret my comment. People in the military tend to be your stereotypical Type A personalities, and the training methods are probably suitable because it is how Type A personalities respond. RANGER school instruction in the civilian environment would result in countless complaints ranging from sexual harassment to physical abuse. However, within the confines of RANGER school, it produces some of the world's deadliest warriors.

    TSA explores various theories of instruction and learning. As an instructor, I have to adjust to the different learning styles that may be in the classroom. The student who appears to not be paying attention because he or she isn't taking notes may be an auditory learner who is concentrating on what's being said. The student who appears to be impatient because he or she is squirming in the chair may be a kinesthetic learner who relies on the practical lab as the primary learning tool. The student who writes copious notes but doesn't actually study those notes may be a visual learner whose act of writing is the learning reinforcement. Point here is that TSA does a pretty good job of exploring these various methods and their potential for more effective training.

    Even so, the toughest nut to crack is applying a methodology to a job that involves the dynamics of human behavior. And that's frustrating for many officers who want to what-if the (expletive deleted) out of a teaching point. My goal is to teach a principle so that officers can apply it rather than memorize a specific procedure. But supervisor dynamics can complicate that, too. Officers may leave my classroom with the intended understanding, and a supervisor can easily erase that with draconian guidance that removes officer initiative. Having said that, there are also other supervisors who pick up from where I left off and move it to the next level. So there are a lot of different factors.

    For me, I like the challenge. I welcome you questioning the effectiveness of TSA training. I would hope that you would look at it objectively and not cave in to the anti-TSA silliness.
  16. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    Bart, you are laying on the Ranger stuff rather thick.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  17. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Wow. All of that wonderful training methodology wasted on morons who can't grasp simple things like "passengers can and should always be able to see their belongings" and "the TSA does not prohibit photography at the checkpoint."

    Or is it that the trainers just can't get those simple points across?

    Or is it just that putting on the blue shirt automatically turns people into authority-drunk assholes?

    (I note that none of those cases are mutually exclusive.)
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  18. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Bart, sorry to tell you but the training didn't take.

    You really need to understand that one simple point.

    TSA screeners are feeling genitals.

    TSA screeners are placing people in ways where we cannot see our stuff.

    TSA screeners are abusive and confrontational.

    TSA screeners are poor representatives of the United States!
    barbell and Lisa Simeone like this.
  19. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    The TSA screeners are poor representatives of homo sapiens sapiens, let alone any particular nationality.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  20. VH-RMD

    VH-RMD Original Member

    the TSA goons are untrainable dolts - those at the checkpoint and those undertaking any other 'function'.

    Those with 'Trainer' in their title appear to be even less amenable to education.

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