The world's most difficult countries to travel through

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Mike, Jun 17, 2011.

  1. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    A Sydney Morning Herabld blogger has compiled a list:


    Thank you, TSA. We are #4, after Russia, Japan & Iran:

    Their reference to "airport feel-ups" links to the following SMH article:

     
  2. FriendlySkies

    FriendlySkies Member

    Why am I not surprised? TSA has made US air travel so miserable. 8/10 times I go through the security theater dragnet, I see passengers with horrendous expressions. People don't smile anymore, and TSA wonders why the public hates them so much, and even resorts to physical violence.. Sigh. :(

    Any bets that we'll be #1 in this next worst airport list?
     
  3. mikemey

    mikemey Original Member

    And then the politicians wonder why the tourists aren't coming here. I would tell them not to as well.
     
  4. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    I posted this in a Facebook conversatiom a while back.

     
  5. SATTSO

    SATTSO Original Member

    Actually, most of the blame, according to the Department of Commerce, lays not with TSA, but with strict Visa laws, which cost the U.S. billions in lost tourist monies.
     
  6. VH-RMD

    VH-RMD Original Member

    it is the TSA which is why I will not travel to the USA currently, nothing else, just the TSA.
     
    FriendlySkies likes this.
  7. SATTSO

    SATTSO Original Member

    Oh, I did nit say TSA has some of the blame - and I am sure there are other reasons too, depending on the specific person. Yet it's now clear, according to the Department of Commerce, that the major source of loss to US travel, which cost the US billions of dollars, is the Department of State, not DHS or TSA.

    And I'll add this: for some time now on another travel site many have blamed DHS And TSA for the loss of travel, but now not only is there no proof for that, there is proof that the major cause is not TSA. You are now simple wrong to blame TSA for this loss; almost all of it results from very strict Visa regulations enacted by the DoS.
     
  8. VH-RMD

    VH-RMD Original Member

    No I am not wrong to say it is the TSA.

    I have NEVER had a problem obtaining a visa for the USA (Australia being such good mates and all).

    I do not travel there any more because of the TSA, no other reason, just the TSA, their junk procedures and policies and their appalling uneducated clerks and their behaviour. The one and only reason.

    So don't tell me I am wrong, I know exactly why I don't travel to the USA any more - you and your ilk.
     
  9. SATTSO

    SATTSO Original Member


    I was using "you" in the general sense: I haven't checked what you have said on the other site, and surprise, I could care less what you individually care. Dont be hurt, but your opinion means little to me.

    If you read what I said, instead of quoting just one part out of context, you will note that I did write that TSA is the reason that some do not travel to the US. Absolutely no doubt about that; seriously, no argument there.

    But you can not argue that on the other travel site we have post, the general consensus is that the travel loss is a result of TSA. We now know that the collective you (happy?) are wrong. You and your ilk are incorrect to blame TSA for this.
     
  10. VH-RMD

    VH-RMD Original Member

    What is the relevance of any other site? This is the site we are on and making comments on... some of us may be abandoning that 'other site' due to the overt TSA pandering which has occured due to the hurt feelings of a few apologists.

    Patently not... you responded.

    Had you completed even a basic education, you would be able to construct sentences that conformed to generally accepted grammatical rules.
     
  11. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    SATTSO, welcome to Travel Underground. It's nice to see you here.

    I find it interesting that your argument seems to be that difficulty in getting a visa is the primarily, and possibly only reason travel numbers to the US are down.

    TSA certainly doesn't help. And it doesn't help a lot. There's just no way to measure direct numbers that TSA decisions are affecting these decisions.

    Let's say you like to shop at Old Navy, and you prefer to use a VISA to pay. Then one day they stop accepting VISA, and you don't have any other branded cards. You could use cash, but the employees there have become surly because so many people are openly hostile about the no VISA policy. In addition they have removed the doors to all the fitting rooms because theft is now a concern and you have nothing to hide, right? They also are going to frisk you on entry, and sometimes exit, and anytime you are in the store because sometimes they feel like. After all, they're only doing their jobs to make sure you aren't hiding a pair of boxer shorts in your pocket. I know for me, that situation would make shopping at Old Navy pretty unappealing. You wouldn't necessarily say that you aren't shopping there anymore because of all of the above. Most people would say something along the lines of, "It's easier to go somewhere else," or "They stopped accepting VISA." They most certainly wouldn't say, "It's because they frisk me and treat me like a criminal" because people, in general don't admit that feeling because then others commonly assume that if you're treated like a criminal you probably deserved it. It's that sticky little piece of our culture where everyone is innocent until proven guilty that when you start treating people like they're guilty, they must be.

    So instead of shopping at Old Navy, some might now elect to shop at Macy*s where you aren't frisked, you aren't forced to remove your shoes, you aren't yelled at for no apparent reason, they have doors on their fitting rooms, and they accept VISA. It's pretty much a no brainer.
     
  12. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    The arrogance displayed in your post, SATTSO, is the reason so many have given up on visiting the US and/or flying altogether. And don't try to tell us that you are one person when you post and another person on the job.
     
  13. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    I used to fly at least once a year to visit family, friends, interesting places, etc.

    The last time I flew was last July to visit a relative whose health is/was failing. The next time I'll be flying is in October. That's over 365 days passed. Furthermore, the only reason I fly at all is because a family member works for WN (how did SouthWest Airlines get that abbreviation anyway?) and I can fly NRSA. If that were not the case, I would be driving/trains/buses only. As it is, I'm still looking into road trips and train trips in the future, and that's saying something because I'm one goddamn nervous driver.

    The reason for these arrangements is the TSA. No other reason.
    -Turning off electronics annoys me but I've never considered it a deal-breaker. Electronic device restrictions do not dissuade me from flying.
    -Air pressure changes bother me (okay, they reduced me to tears and literal screams of agony once when I was 12 because an inexperienced pilot descended too fast and my eyeteeth felt like they were going to explode in my mouth), and the inability to distract myself with electronics doesn't help (feels more like rubbing it in), but I seem to have outgrown major pressure problems and make sure to drug myself up on Sudafed and aspirin an hour before landing, so I'm good there. Cabin pressure changes do not dissuade me from flying.

    The TSA, on the other hand, dissuades me from flying. The TSA dissuades me from ever going near an airport. When all is said and done, plane rides are more or less pleasant due to being able to lose myself in a book and sometimes have decent, if awkward, conversations with other pax (gotta love that WN wherever-you-please seating). The airplane is cool by me. The trip through the airport, on the other hand, is not enjoyable in any way and that is 100% the TSA's fault. FAULT. FAULT.

    It's been pointed out, and I wholeheartedly agree, that before (*scary waggly fingers*) NIIIIIIINE ELEEEEVEEEEEEN! WE ORDER YOU TO BE AFRAID OF THE NUMBERS NINE AND ELEVEN, CITIZEN! (*scary waggly fingers*) your odds of encountering a terrorist when traveling by air were one in some absurdly, comically large number and you really shouldn't worry about it. Now your odds of encountering a terrorist are basically 100% unless you're your own pilot or chartering a flight. The terrorists wear blue shirts that say "TSA" on them.

    So why should anyone want to travel by commercial airliner when they're guaranteed to have to interact with a terrorist molester in order to do so?

    Yeah, TSA accounts for 100% of my aversion to air travel. If TSA was disbanded and each and every last TSO - Yes, the l0w-man, new-hire, rank-and-file ones who are just doing their (immoral, inexcusable, disgusting, unconstitutional, repugnant) jobs - were to find themselves unemployed, I would be chomping at the bit to fly all over the nation and the world and see wondrous sights I've never seen. I'd make a point to visit one new destination each year - domestic, foreign, who cares so long as it's interesting - maybe more than once a year depending on how my WN relatives are able to arrange for NRSA passes. You know, take advantage of the ability to fly free while I can, before they retire.

    As it is right now, though, I limit my air travel to visits to an ailing family member and to family functions in tropical destinations where driving is, right now, impractical due to worn tires and train travel is impractical due to unpredictable arrival times that may put us there after our boat has left. Charter flights cost more than I paid for my (late-model, pretty nice) car and I'm really hoping that getting my pilot's license would be a waste of time because TSA would be disbanded in the time it takes me to learn to fly.

    Right now, if I didn't fly NRSA, I wouldn't fly at all. I'd rather pay the $700 for brand-new tires and maintenance so I could drive where I wanted to go. I'd rather pay the steep prices for a sleeper car on a train and endure delays, track changes, short-run bus trips, etc. to take Amtrak where I wanted to go. The airlines are making no money from me. That is 100% the fault of the TSA.

    In summation, yes, the TSA is definitely the reason why a lot of people don't fly.
     
  14. SATTSO

    SATTSO Original Member

    Thank you.

    And its not MY argument. The Department of Commerce release a report recently. The DoC put the primary blame on the Department of State - NOT me. I am simply relating what is in this report.

    Also note that I am NOT saying DHS/TSA has not caused travel loss. It certainly has.
     
  15. SATTSO

    SATTSO Original Member

    Doober, I don't really care if you think I'm arrogant or not. I'm glad you think I am. I hope it pisses you off. :)

    Add:

    I want to add, Doober, that I find it telling that many of the members here, who also post on FT, are some of the most nasty, rude, arrogant people I have ever met. You included. You treat people on these sites like sh!t, and are shocked when its given back to you. And then use it as proof to justify your nasty behavior.

    When I first showed up at FT, I was very nice to everyone, apologize about everything, didn't talk back to anyone - and if you go read some of those comments people wrote to me (Sept 2009 when I started in FT), you will see some people thanking me for my behavior. Others, since the day I encounter them, treated me like crap. You included, when you and I first "met". Even though I was never rude to you - at first.

    What you will also see in those first post are people defending their right to be be rude to me and other TSA employees, defending themselves to other FT members, because I worked for TSA, thus I deserved to be treated this way. After a while, with the moderators on that site doing nothing to stop it, I decided I will give back the abuse to certain people - including you - and I find it SOOO DAMMMNN telling that people like you can dish it, but not take it. Grow up. Take it like an adult, because you certainly hand it out like an adult.

    And yes, I am different at work. Even if you don't like it or believe it. Passengers shake my hand all the time, some have bought me coffee, lunch, dinner. And, Doober, if I ever met you in an airport while I'm working, you can say anything you want to me, and I won't talk back one peep. Nor will I retaliate. Promise ;)
     
  16. SATTSO

    SATTSO Original Member

    Oh, sorry, that my grammar offends you. Actually, I have finished college. I often/mostly reply on the phone, but I won't blame that for my grammar. But I will state when someone, like you, begins to attack another for things such as that, it means they basically have nothing left to attack that person with. Which means your idiotic arguments have failed.

    And I will make an effort to put grammatical mistakes in my post to you, ever time, because when someone is petty like that, it really seems to piss them off. Cheers! :)

    ADD:

    lmao

    I will add that I have never taken the time to point out others grammatical mistakes, on this site or FT where I have post for close to 2 years. I have noticed others do so - almost all ways the silly critics of TSA who have nothing better to do with their time.
     
  17. jtodd

    jtodd Original Member

    I no longer fly, at all, due to the TSA and the scum that they employ. I might not have accrued as many air miles as some of the more frequent travelers here have, but I had near 40 RT flights last year, and a few one way. This year I have flown 0 times and have 0 planned flights for the rest of the year. This is fully attributable to the TSA. The USA will only get headed back down the right path when the TSA goes the way of the Dodo. Reigning in this despicable and immoral organization will at least be a start, when/if that happens.
     
  18. SATTSO

    SATTSO Original Member

    Yes, I will agree that people who post to these sites will not fly because of TSA. Yet that does not change the DoC report.
     
  19. AngryMiller

    AngryMiller Original Member

    I would join you with not flying either, but since the job requires it, must do it. TSA, IMHO, has done little to provide any substantial improvement in travel security since before 9/11. When a government agency advertises for workers on pizza boxes it gets the quality workers it deserves, much to the chagrin of travelers.
     
  20. N965VJ

    N965VJ Original Member

    Well now I feel like I should get a little bottle of hotel shampoo out of my Kippie and rinse my mouth out! :eek::p
     

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